Humane dispatch is it legal?

[VSS]

Two points. 1.Road kill is not supposed to enter the human food chain (someone will no doubt be able to quote the law verbatim, please). There are good hygiene reasons for this.

No reason at all why it can't be used for personal consumption. No law prevents it.
What you are not allowed to do is sell it or trsnsfer it in any way.

2. My Firearms Licensing department no longer put HAD on an FAC.You must tell the Police what you are about to do if a firearm is to be used and get an incident number.

A shotgun is the best tool for the job, so no need to have HAD on your FAC to use a shotgun at the roadside.

 

[RJD]

Oddly enough, in the post I copied the pictures of there are numerous people calling the man a “murderer”….and calling for him to be killed…it’s a funny old world.

If it was them that hit it you should have called them animal torturers in retort, along with vegetable murders

 

[billy_boyle_2010]

Those who perform HAD with a knife- how do you do it ?

Do you slit the throat ? Or cut the spinal cord the axis joint ?

Whenever removing heads from a carcass- I'm aware how quickly and easily I can access the axis joint- and get the tip of the blade into the spinal cord. But with an animal that's moving- I'm guessing it's a lot harder.

 

[DocJohn]

Consumption of Roadkill: Yes, it’s a great tradition, but even if the animal is freshly injured and assuming the gut is intact, the beast is shocked. In shock, circulatory changes take place leading to the gut dumping unsavoury faecal bacteria into the bloodstream. This is delivered into the muscle so the meat is contaminated throughout the carcass. Hang it for a few days and eat it rare. Now there is the real potential for food poisoning.
Shotgun is the best tool for the job, I agree. At the scene we should tell the Police what we propose to do. There is an unease in Police HQs with folks using any gun in public places. Regs on Rifles are complex. Shotguns aren’t allowed to be discharged on a public highway. There’s a 50 feet rule, I think. I wonder if at renewal I might have HAD put on my Shotgun Certificate?

 

[willie_gunn]

Consumption of Roadkill: Yes, it’s a great tradition, but even if the animal is freshly injured and assuming the gut is intact, the beast is shocked. In shock, circulatory changes take place leading to the gut dumping unsavoury faecal bacteria into the bloodstream. This is delivered into the muscle so the meat is contaminated throughout the carcass. Hang it for a few days and eat it rare. Now there is the real potential for food poisoning.
Shotgun is the best tool for the job, I agree. At the scene we should tell the Police what we propose to do. There is an unease in Police HQs with folks using any gun in public places. Regs on Rifles are complex. Shotguns aren’t allowed to be discharged on a public highway. There’s a 50 feet rule, I think. I wonder if at renewal I might have HAD put on my Shotgun Certificate?

I think you are referring to the Highways Act 1980?

If so, there is no blanket restriction on discharging a firearm on or within 50 feet of the highway.

What the Act does state is that an offence may be caused (my bold emphasis):

If a person without lawful authority or excuse​

​

(a) lights any fire on or over a highway which consists of or comprises a carriageway; or​

​

(b) discharges any firearm or firework within 50 feet of the centre of such a highway,​

​

and in consequence a user of the highway is injured, interrupted or endangered, that person is guilty of an offence and liable to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale​

​

Which in itself is a good reason to make sure that there is a police officer attending the scene of any HAD. In my case, with Thames Valley Police, this has always been the case. One time the officer kindly stopped the traffic in both directions, as we were outside the entrance to a school, and more recently the officer kept a watch to make sure there was no traffic approaching.

 

[75]

In shock, circulatory changes take place leading to the gut dumping unsavoury faecal bacteria into the bloodstream. This is delivered into the muscle so the meat is contaminated throughout the carcass. Hang it for a few days and eat it rare. Now there is the real potential for food poisoning.

Hmmm. Based on your username, I suspect you’re well qualified to comment but I’m never heard of this or understand how it could possibly happen.

So can you explain to me a) the biological pathway for gut bacteria to enter the bloodstream, b) if such a pathway exists, why it doesn’t “open” at other times the animal is highly stressed (which would presumably lead to massive infection and death) and c) why it doesn’t happen in a wounded deer which runs and then expires (which we would consider safe to eat?

 

[VSS]

Consumption of Roadkill: Yes, it’s a great tradition, but even if the animal is freshly injured and assuming the gut is intact, the beast is shocked. In shock, circulatory changes take place leading to the gut dumping unsavoury faecal bacteria into the bloodstream. This is delivered into the muscle so the meat is contaminated throughout the carcass. Hang it for a few days and eat it rare. Now there is the real potential for food poisoning.

Hence why you would never sell such a carcass.
But for own use? Not really much different from a deer shot (perhaps none too cleanly) in the first few minutes of a 2-hour highseat session and which, in consequence, has lain for a few hours before gralloching.
If the damage is extreme you would deal with it accordingly, whether shot or hit by a vehicle.

. Shotguns aren’t allowed to be discharged on a public highway. There’s a 50 feet rule, I think.

Yes they are.
You've misread the rule.

 

[finnbear270]

and in consequence a user of the highway is injured, interrupted or endangered

 

[NOTSHARP]

Travelling to work early one morning, on the west coast of Scotland, I came across a Red hind. She had been run over across the pelvis, and was trying to stand. She was up on her front legs, with her back legs splayed out, flat on the ground, dragging herself along.

I used a pair of 36" Stillson's to put her out of her misery. My only concern was to do the deed as quickly and efficiently as possible, with what was to hand.



Steve.

 

[Len the dog]

Consumption of Roadkill: Yes, it’s a great tradition, but even if the animal is freshly injured and assuming the gut is intact, the beast is shocked. In shock, circulatory changes take place leading to the gut dumping unsavoury faecal bacteria into the bloodstream. This is delivered into the muscle so the meat is contaminated throughout the carcass. Hang it for a few days and eat it rare. Now there is the real potential for food poisoning.

So when you prick a bird and your dog later manages to find the runner, you would hedge it rather adding it to the day’s tally? Can’t see many shoots asking you back.

 

[25 Sharps]

Consumption of Roadkill: Yes, it’s a great tradition, but even if the animal is freshly injured and assuming the gut is intact, the beast is shocked. In shock, circulatory changes take place leading to the gut dumping unsavoury faecal bacteria into the bloodstream. This is delivered into the muscle so the meat is contaminated throughout the carcass. Hang it for a few days and eat it rare. Now there is the real potential for food poisoning.
Shotgun is the best tool for the job, I agree. At the scene we should tell the Police what we propose to do. There is an unease in Police HQs with folks using any gun in public places. Regs on Rifles are complex. Shotguns aren’t allowed to be discharged on a public highway. There’s a 50 feet rule, I think. I wonder if at renewal I might have HAD put on my Shotgun Certificate?

So any animal that is shot badly and takes a little time to recover and finish off would presumably be in shock and have faecal matter in their blood?

 

[muddy42]

I know its the law and ive been involved in a fair few dispatches, but I cant think of any situation where:
- someone has performed a dispatch.
- they have found out who the landowner was before the meat spoiled.
- AND the landowner says actually my freezer is a bit empty, I’ll come and retrieve/gralloch/butcher the deer at a moments notice.

Normally the deer is left or someone breaks the law.

 

[Hunter1973]

It wasn’t northeast Scotland was it?

View attachment 394293View attachment 394294

Hi Mate
No mine was near Blairgowrie and was absolutely dead as I put the knife straight into its heart to make sure. Then a reflex test.

 

[DocJohn]

So any animal that is shot badly and takes a little time to recover and finish off would presumably be in shock and have faecal matter in their blood?

Faecal bacteria, yes. E. coli anyone? To put it in proportion, the longer the circulation persists, the greater the risk. If the carcass is then well hung, then the meat cooked rare we compound the problem. Cleary, that risk is must be small judging from the numbers of shot animals handled this way without mass outbreaks of food poisoning.

 

[75]

Faecal bacteria, yes. E. coli anyone? To put it in proportion, the longer the circulation persists, the greater the risk. If the carcass is then well hung, then the meat cooked rare we compound the problem. Cleary, that risk is must be small judging from the numbers of shot animals handled this way without mass outbreaks of food poisoning.

You didn't answer my previous questions. I see from your intro that you're a retired medic (and probably quite local to me) so presume you know what you are talking about but this is something I have never heard of and I just can't quite get my head around.

Why doesn't every deer that gets chased by a dog develop sepsis? Or for that matter, why doesn't every human that goes into shock develop sepsis? Last time I looked, shock on it's own isn't fatal or generally come with any infectious complications. But getting a good dose of e coli direct into your bloodstream wouldn't do you any favours.

If there is a serious risk then why isn't it mentioned in Large Game Meat hygiene etc?

I think the phrase used on Wiki is "citation required".

 

[grandad of the woods]

I also can't seem the get my head round this dose this means I been eating **** rabbits for some time now ;/ I am aware that when animals go into shock or even stress they release adrenaline and cortisol into the body that can taint the meat ?

 

[Basil H]

So DocJohn, are you are saying that the lymphatic system associated with the alimentary canal fails at a time when it is most needed ?

 

[Rafter]

Wow.

That makes me wonder how I ever survived eating wild pork that had been caught by dogs and subsequently stuck with a knife.

I'm not a biologist, but I would think it reasonable to assume that having a pack of dogs swinging off your ears, back end and whatever else they can attach themselves to could raise the stress levels somewhat, with the attendant risk of gut bacteria to blood stream transfer....... assuming that this is actually a thing.

More explanation required, methinks.

 

[75]

Faecal bacteria, yes. E. coli anyone? To put it in proportion, the longer the circulation persists, the greater the risk. If the carcass is then well hung, then the meat cooked rare we compound the problem. Cleary, that risk is must be small judging from the numbers of shot animals handled this way without mass outbreaks of food poisoning.

As @DocJohn has been on SD today but failed to provide any follow up or substantiation, I guess we just have to agree that this is factually incorrect.

 

[finnbear270]

Complete Tosh.