Hypothetical question regarding runners

[firsttimer]

According to Mr Hingston this has not been brought in any proceedings in Scotland. That said, there is always ability for allegations to be made and where there is a case to answer the PF then Court will decide.

As I have previously stated there is no dubiety that a stalker can cross a boundary to follow up an injured deer, depandant calf or a diseased deer to prevent suffering. The 'grey' area as far as I am concerned legally is the removal of the carcase. Being an SNH F&C stalker and following their guidance, if I had to undertake the above act, I would dispatch the deer, gralloch it and leave the carcase in a discrete location and attempt to make contact with the person holding the rights to take or shoot deer on the ground to explain the position and seek their permission to 'dispose' of the carcase. If they did not agree or were not contactible I would leave the carcase where it was and as a last resort inform the Police of my actions.

Best Practice Guide Humane Dispatch (1)- If a deer is dispatched on ground where you do not have deer control rights (e.g. an injured deer that has moved onto neighbouring ground), ensure that the owner/occupier is informed and has given permission to remove the carcass, or is informed as soon as possible thereafter.

The sentiment of deer/venison should not come into play on leaving a carcase on the ground, how many worry about a shot fox, squirrel or pigeon falling on other's ground?

 

[Tamus]

According to Mr Hingston this has not been brought in any proceedings in Scotland. That said, there is always ability for allegations to be made and where there is a case to answer the PF then Court will decide.

As I have previously stated there is no dubiety that a stalker can cross a boundary to follow up an injured deer, depandant calf or a diseased deer to prevent suffering. The 'grey' area as far as I am concerned legally is the removal of the carcase. Being an SNH F&C stalker and following their guidance, if I had to undertake the above act, I would dispatch the deer, gralloch it and leave the carcase in a discrete location and attempt to make contact with the person holding the rights to take or shoot deer on the ground to explain the position and seek their permission to 'dispose' of the carcase. If they did not agree or were not contactible I would leave the carcase where it was and as a last resort inform the Police of my actions.

Best Practice Guide Humane Dispatch (1)- If a deer is dispatched on ground where you do not have deer control rights (e.g. an injured deer that has moved onto neighbouring ground), ensure that the owner/occupier is informed and has given permission to remove the carcass, or is informed as soon as possible thereafter.

The sentiment of deer/venison should not come into play on leaving a carcase on the ground, how many worry about a shot fox, squirrel or pigeon falling on other's ground?

The Best Practice Guide is a good starting point... but it's not Scots law.

Mr Hingston, for the purposes of this conversation, does represent "Scots Law"... and you don't seem to feel his legal opinion might be better than yours...

There's really not much I can do about that.

 

[firsttimer]

There's really not much I can do about that.

Tamus- Your concern is commendable and appreciated, however, I shall seek my own guidance in life, but thank you. Seems you are taking this thread quite personally?

Mr Hingston, for the purposes of this conversation, does represent "Scots Law"... QUOTE] Yes to the person paying his fee, but his 'opinion' is just that and it would be his peers that decide on the judgement not he. SNH(Deer Commission for Scotland) advise the Scottish Ministers on all matters regarding deer and am sure have sought the highest legal advice on the Statute before issuing guidance on the Act and the issue of the Best Practice guide. But hey ho I may stand corrected when I am up in the 'dock'

 

[Tamus]

Tamus- Your concern is commendable and appreciated, however, I shall seek my own guidance in life, but thank you. Seems you are taking this thread quite personally?

Since it was me who asked for and obtained the opinion you choose to question and I did that in the hope of benefiting and enlightening those who read this forum... to that extent, I guess I do take it personally. Though I do agree, we should all seek our own guidance in life... Mr Hingston, but not he alone, has guided me in this matter.

Mr Hingston, for the purposes of this conversation, does represent "Scots Law"... QUOTE] Yes to the person paying his fee, but his 'opinion' is just that and it would be his peers that decide on the judgement not he. SNH(Deer Commission for Scotland) advise the Scottish Ministers on all matters regarding deer and am sure have sought the highest legal advice on the Statute before issuing guidance on the Act and the issue of the Best Practice guide. But hey ho I may stand corrected when I am up in the 'dock'

Why would you be in the dock? ... have you done a bad thing and been caught doing it?

 

[mark g]

If my deer droped over the boundary this has happend many times and was infact dead when i got to it i would remove it if i could not get hold of the other landowner involved. Leaving an animal to rot on the hoof is not acceptable in my book nor is the chance that some person might find the deer upsetting them enough to bring problems for deer stalkers or what they do.
Now Mark what would you do ?

Davie you may find yourself in trouble some day lifting deer that dont delong to you.

"what would I do " firsttimer hit the nail right on the head with that one,

Well said Andy..

 

[kev.rem700]

Davie you may find yourself in trouble some day lifting deer that dont delong to you.

"what would I do " firsttimer hit the nail right
on the head with that one,

Well said Andy..

+1 is a deer worth your fac,your reputation,

your job in some cases and the reast that could

happen if caught.just not worth it IMO.

regards kev.

 

[The tramp]

Surely if you have the number for neighbouring land owners, and you make several attempts to contact, then you have covered your ass somewhat. It would be a 'reasonable' defence in law as most laws are biased to what can be 'reasonably' done. Ie, drive too fast on a country lane and hit a combine during harvest season, it would be 'reasonable' to expect heavy farm machinery to be there during harvest season, thus you would get prosecuted for dangerous driving, or due care. If you were driving the same lane at night, and hit an unlit tractor, broken down car etc, you would most likely not get charged at all, as it wouldn't be 'reasonable' to expect an unlit obstruction. Although, as we are talking firearms, it may not apply as most laws concerning them are 'absolute' but I'm sure if you could prove you made several 'missed calls' or other 'reasonable' attempts to contact the lawful owner of the land, I (personally) can't see it would get taken further, unless the landowner is an arse and pushes it, or has previously given a definite 'no' in the past.
I may be wrong, so please don't quote me in court
hth
Pete

 

[6pointer]

Mark you let me worry about that.
Mark are you telling me you have left a deer to rot in a field when there is a value on it.
Kev the reason i have my FAC is to manage and cull deer not to leave them rot because some council or FC ranger cannot be contacted. There are questions that have been put forward at this moment that hopefully will clarify the position should some one find them self in a position were there is no winner.
I wee scenario that happened last buck season . I was out early morning and shot a buck not the best shot ever but he was hit hard he ran on about 60 mtrs and took refuge in the back of the chapel in Easter house. Now this is not my chapel and i did not know who to contact. So i have a choice do i enter the grounds and discretely remove the deer that with out doubt would have caused some king of a fuss over the next 3 hours or do i turn a blind eye and hope it all goes away.
What i did worked out ok but it might have all gone wrong had i not made the correct choice.
The papers would have had a field day, I can see the headlines now.
(BAMBI MURDERD WHILE AT CHAPLE)

 

[firsttimer]

and took refuse in the back of the chapel in Easter house. Now this is not my chapel and i did not know who to contact. QUOTE] Forgive you David as you have sinned, did it not have 'eccleseastical rights' taking refuse in the chapel?

 

[mark g]

Mark you let me worry about that.
Mark are you telling me you have left a deer to rot in a field when there is a value on it.
Kev the reason i have my FAC is to manage and cull deer not to leave them rot because some council or FC ranger cannot be contacted. There are questions that have been put forward at this moment that hopefully will clarify the position should some one find them self in a position were there is no winner.
I wee scenario that happened last buck season . I was out early morning and shot a buck not the best shot ever but he was hit hard he ran on about 60 mtrs and took refuse in the back of the chapel in Easter house. Now this is not my chapel and i did not know who to contact. So i have a choice do i enter the grounds and discretely remove the deer that with out doubt would have caused some king of a fuss over the next 3 hours or do i turn a blind eye and hope it all goes away.
What i did worked out ok but it might have all gone wrong had i not made the correct choice.
The papers would have had a field day, I can see the headlines now.
(BAMBI MURDERD WHILE AT CHAPLE)

Davie let me worry about that.

I would never have fired a shot 60m from a chapel ! is that not a bit dangerous & and in bad taste.

 

[Uncle Buck]

and took refuse in the back of the chapel in Easter house. Now this is not my chapel and i did not know who to contact. QUOTE] Forgive you David as you have sinned, did it not have 'eccleseastical rights' taking refuse in the chapel?

Did you swallow a dictionary Andy, perhaps the was look'n for it's last rights !

 

[6pointer]

F in spell check i might try and spell work next Billy Mark why would it be in bad taste i am sure the priest had i have known who he was would have been delighted in my actions. Nothing dangerous about my shooting mark.

 

[Uncle Buck]

F in spell check i might try and spell work next Billy Mark why would it be in bad taste i am sure the priest had i have known who he was would have been delighted in my actions. Nothing dangerous about my shooting mark.

Davie, I think I must have tapped a nerve, am no bitting !

 

[kev.rem700]

F in spell check i might try and spell work next Billy Mark why would it be in bad taste i am sure the priest had i have known who he was would have been delighted in my actions. Nothing dangerous about my shooting mark.

Wooo back to the school play ground we go.

 

[mark g]

F in spell check i might try and spell work next Billy Mark why would it be in bad taste i am sure the priest had i have known who he was would have been delighted in my actions. Nothing dangerous about my shooting mark.

Davie now you are getting personal about someones wellfair !!

I will stand by what i said discharging a firearm 60m from a chapel is bad taste, you talk about the public getting the wrong impressions about the shooting community and you are fireing a gun outside a chapel that's a good add for stalking & guns.

 

[6pointer]

Mark you seem to like this word Dangerous in what sense would it be Dangerous. You also suggest that Andy,S (First Timer ) post suggesting leaving deer lie were they fall if it is not your land or permission as an acceptable solution.Shooting deer in and around towns will be come more common and as a FC contractor you might be asked in future to remove deer from these very areas will you refuse then. FC are now managing woods in our cities Easter house drumchapel and many other areas. They are currently removing deer from high public areas under an urban deer management scheme. They are also looking in to the best way to deal with deer that run in to places that might cause concern and i am sure that leaving them to Rot will not be an option.
With regards getting personal i didn't think so i thought it was just a bit of tit for tat banters.

 

[David TS]

I will stand by what i said discharging a firearm 60m from a chapel is bad taste, you talk about the public getting the wrong impressions about the shooting community and you are fireing a gun outside a chapel that's a good add for stalking & guns.

Life is all about timing.

Discharging a rifle outside a chapel in the middle of service on a Sunday would probably be a problem.

Doing the same at daybreak on a Tuesday morning in mid summer probably wouldn't

 

[6pointer]

David you are correct there are times when deer in highly populated areas can be dealt with safely it only takes a bit of thought . But there are new problems to be solved and i am sure again with a bit of thought and respect for the public a solution will be found.

 

[Uncle Buck]

Davie now you are getting personal about someones welfare !!

I will stand by what i said discharging a firearm 60m from a chapel is bad taste, you talk about the public getting the wrong impressions about the shooting community and you are firing a gun outside a chapel that's a good add for stalking & guns.

Thanks Mark but I'm more than capable of fighting my own corner.

"With regards getting personal i didn't think so i thought it was just a bit of tit for tat banters"

Davie banter is banter but my personal life is just that and NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU !

Rgds, Billy.

 

[Cut+Squirt]

A can't remember a thread since the deer dog threads with so much -

And so much -

And so much -