Hypothetical question regarding runners

New Avon Arms
Uncle Buck said:
I'm curious has there been a test case where section 25 was put foreward as a defence Tamus ?

as you know the proof's in the pudding !..............
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Tamus said:
To be honest ... I don't know.

But... as far as I can tell, when section 25 is used correctly, how could there be anything to defend? ... no charges could follow let alone there be a court case.
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6pointer said:
Mark you let me worry about that.
Mark are you telling me you have left a deer to rot in a field when there is a value on it.:rofl::fib:
Kev the reason i have my FAC is to manage and cull deer not to leave them rot because some council or FC ranger cannot be contacted. There are questions that have been put forward at this moment that hopefully will clarify the position should some one find them self in a position were there is no winner.
I wee scenario that happened last buck season . I was out early morning and shot a buck not the best shot ever but he was hit hard he ran on about 60 mtrs and took refuge in the back of the chapel in Easter house. Now this is not my chapel and i did not know who to contact. So i have a choice do i enter the grounds and discretely remove the deer that with out doubt would have caused some king of a fuss over the next 3 hours or do i turn a blind eye and hope it all goes away.
What i did worked out ok but it might have all gone wrong had i not made the correct choice.
The papers would have had a field day, I can see the headlines now.
(BAMBI MURDERD WHILE AT CHAPLE)
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Well lads, if Davie keeps sending them to church you may well find out if Section 25 is worth the paper it's printed on! :rofl:


Here's a little tune to keep you entertained if you end up doing porridge some time 6P:

Crying in the Chapel - Elvis Presley - YouTube



:D
 
6pointer said:
Mark you seem to like this word Dangerous in what sense would it be Dangerous. You also suggest that Andy,S (First Timer ) post suggesting leaving deer lie were they fall if it is not your land or permission as an acceptable solution.Shooting deer in and around towns will be come more common and as a FC contractor you might be asked in future to remove deer from these very areas will you refuse then. FC are now managing woods in our cities Easter house drumchapel and many other areas. They are currently removing deer from high public areas under an urban deer management scheme. They are also looking in to the best way to deal with deer that run in to places that might cause concern and i am sure that leaving them to Rot will not be an option.
With regards getting personal i didn't think so i thought it was just a bit of tit for tat banters. :oops:
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"leaving deer lie were they fall if it is not your land or permission as an acceptable solution"
Davie, removing deer when you dont have permission is not acceptable and is classed as poaching!
"you might be asked in future to remove deer from these very areas will you refuse then"
I would not discharge a firearm 60m from a chapel !
"With regards getting personal i didn't think so i thought it was just a bit of tit for tat banters"
Dont think so Davie !

I will say no more on this :banghead:
 
mark g said:
removing deer when you dont have permission is not acceptable and is classed as poaching!
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I agree... BUT...

What about those circumstances where law itself gives you that permission?

Or... to put it another way... If you have killed your deer lawfully.... why is it not yours?

Or... are you now trying to say that section 25 does not give you that permission... ie. to kill deer lawfully on "other" ground?
 
Tamus said:
I agree... BUT...

What about those circumstances where law itself gives you that permission?

Or... to put it another way... If you have killed your deer lawfully.... why is it not yours?

Or... are you now trying to say that section 25 does not give you that permission... ie. to kill deer lawfully on "other" ground?
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What about those circumstances where law itself gives you that permission?

Or... to put it another way... If you have killed your deer lawfully.... why is it not yours?
Section 25 used lawfully would be helpful but most deer that run die defore they hit the ground so it would not come in to play the ones who are trying to push this is the same people who dont know a border exists all they see is £££££.
Or... are you now trying to say that section 25 does not give you that permission... ie. to kill deer lawfully on "other" ground?[/QUOTE]
section 25 looks good on paper but has not been tried and i would not like to be the one who tries it (so far its one mans word)

 
mark g said:
section 25 looks good on paper but has not been tried and i would not like to be the one who tries it (so far its one mans word)
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I wish you'd split my quoted words in your post #65 a bit better. Putting your own words in, in blue, is all very well but those are not my words.

A deer is shot, it runs on to other ground where it dies... not a "normal" event but not a particularly unusual event when shooting anywhere even remotely "close" to a boundary... but, especially not an unusual event when taking some of our more vigorous and tenacious of life species, such as Sika.

Question: How do you know, with certainty, that any deer is dead?

Incidentally, all I'm pushing for is truth and understanding on an evidently much misrepresented point... and I don't sell venison so your imputation is incorrect in my case.
 
Tamus said:
I wish you'd split my quoted words in your post #65 a bit better. Putting your own words in, in blue, is all very well but those are not my words.

A deer is shot, it runs on to other ground where it dies... not a "normal" event but not a particularly unusual event when shooting anywhere even remotely "close" to a boundary... but, especially not an unusual event when taking some of our more vigorous and tenacious of life species, such as Sika.

Question: How do you know, with certainty, that any deer is dead?

Incidentally, all I'm pushing for is truth and understanding on an evidently much misrepresented point... and I don't sell venison so your imputation is incorrect in my case.
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Tamus I am sorry its not good enough for you but you seem to have still got the point!
if you dont know when a deer is dead have a look at best practice (STOP PLAY'N GAMES)
My imputation was not at you.
 
There are many people that would not discharge a firearm in and around built up areas. It dose not matter to me if its a chapel or a tenement drug den safety first but have no hesitation in dealing with urban deer. This is a personal choice but how you can say its dangerous is beyond me.
Poaching Mark is were you take a deer with out the owners consent .If you cannot contact the owner and believe he would let you move it that's common sense. I am sure in the areas well away from the public gaze leaving deer is acceptable to some in fact they were left when the big culls were getting done in the late nineties. I am told it still happend on the open hill but i cannot think of anything worse than some dog walker at the back of the place grounds finding deer just because they made it to cover.
 
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mark g said:
Tamus I am sorry its not good enough for you but you seem to have still got the point!
if you dont know when a deer is dead have a look at the best practicMES (STOP PLAY'N GAMES)
My imputation was not at you.
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Damn it man, you were meant to give a straight answer... :D


SNH Best Practice on follow up of a shot deer states:

Follow-up Procedure 1.
  • Remain concealed and wait for any other deer in the vicinity to depart.
  • Move downwind of the deer to the spot where the deer dropped and approach quietly.
    Be prepared to shoot again if the deer shows signs of rising-follow Procedure 2.
  • When closer, check at intervals with binoculars for signs of life.
  • If it is suspected that the deer is wounded, shoot from a position giving the clearest possible shot, taking care to avoid disturbing the deer in the process and taking care that the backstop is safe.
  • Where there are no obvious signs of life ascertain death by testing for blink reflex in the eye. If necessary dispatch humanely.***
Follow-up Procedure 2.

  • When possible, if safe to do so, the deer should immediately be shot, even ifit is moving.
  • When it is not possible to shoot again, if a dog is present which is capable of securing the deer, then have it do so immediately.****
  • Where dog is not capable of securing the deer, or where a dog is not present, allow the deer time (15 to 30 mins) to lie down and settle.
  • If the deer has moved out of sight, approach the point where the deer was shot. Assess for signs of hit/strike (see Additional Physical Evidence below) and follow any clear blood trail. If no obvious trail use a trained dog to locate the deer.****
  • In open country, remain out of sight while keeping the deer in view until it slows up or lies down and can be stalked again.
  • If not possible to use a firearm to dispatch a wounded deer then consider using other methods.***
Unless I'm missing something this means... go over to the deer and confirm death, using the above procedures as advised.
 
Davie,maybe a silly question but did you retrieve deer with your rifle on hallowed land,therefore that's armed tresspass.or did you leave your rifle somewhere were the druggies might fined it.thats negligence on safety.just curious that's all
 
taln said:
Davie,maybe a silly question but did you retrieve deer with your rifle on hallowed land,therefore that's armed tresspass.or did you leave your rifle somewhere were the druggies might fined it.thats negligence on safety.just curious that's all
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Trespass, in Scotland? Puh leeze!

I'm sure he wisnae planning to set up lodgings or an encampment of a permanent nature... Have you actually read the Scots law on trespass?

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/28-29/56/contents

How does he get permission to be on land with a gun, searching for a wounded/shot deer?

Read the Deer Scotland Act 1996 (as amended) or its Southern equivalent.

As an aside remark to the proprietors of this site... don't you think you might be well advised to get and publish proper legal advice on the law surrounding this matter of crossing boundaries when a wounded/injured deer must be attended to?

Because, quite frankly, the level of ignorance and misinformation on the topic seems to me to be an endlessly diverse and serious problem within the sport, as represented on these forum pages... despite some of us and our best efforts to rectify this. You'd be doing yourselves, all of us and the sport itself a great service in helping to educate by publishing the facts... but maybe you benefit from not doing so .... ??? Though I'll be jiggered if I can see how that might be.

Atb~Tom
 
Stevie this is a hypothetical thread and what i do will have no bearing on what the law allows every area has its problems and if the law has no answers or the answers are not really clear then the question you have should be aimed at the law makers.
So if you think that Armed trespass is when you walk on to some one else's land with a rifle you really do need to think about how you get from your car to your house or how you could possibly travel from you car to put in petrol or how could any one every go stalking in a different area they would need to take the rifle to dinner.
But you Stevie have now got me curious as to why it would be armed trespass or negligence in both of your scenarios or is it because its a chapel ?.
 
Davie maybe I'm wrong,but I was led to believe that if you leave from your car or other forms of transport with your rifle,you can only head across other land with gun in case,if you were goin to said places,i.e.permission,house ext.any walking over land with rifle with no destination is armed tresspass no.maybe im wrong.if i am i stand corrected.please enlighten me as to other thoughts on this subject
 
Hi Tamus, hows the boots doing, have you been wearing them much?
I'v had a hell of a week, the bunions, verrucas, althetes foot and trench foot have been playing up real bad. . . :lol:
 
Cadex said:
Hi Tamus, hows the boots doing, have you been wearing them much?
I'v had a hell of a week, the bunions, verrucas, althetes foot and trench foot have been playing up real bad. . . :lol:
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Too damned hot... but now you come to mention it... the missus did say something about my smelly socks :D
 
Wow Davy.hope the courts will let us quote the best practice guides if we are ever in that position.this thread is great.bet you that there is a lot of stalkers out there think they are doing the right thing when they attempt to retrieve deer that has run onto someone elses property.is there someone out there that has been in this position
 
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