Invincible deer?

[RCS Deer Management]

I still use lead and don't have any issues with expansion, but agree with @Norfolk Deer Search on pinning front shoulders..
I always pin the front shoulders on all muntjac I shoot - I know they aren't going to run, and removes risk of green contamination as 90% of the time they are quartering away/towards you.

I think it is all down to individual scenarios, the estate we manage has a lot of footfall from dog walkers and guests, so I would rather lose some meat on the shoulder but have the animal drop on the spot with no risk of it running on. Boundaries are also an issue, as we don't have any access to surrounding land. In other areas you might elect for standard shot placement behind the shoulder, but as I said I think it is very scenario dependent.

Sandy

Great, I do the same, but following your choice of bullet by saying just pin them through the shoulders doesn’t do much to validate the effectiveness of the expansion of your non toxic load. You could use full metal jacket bullets if you pin the shoulders and get on fine

 

[Leec6.5]

Ever wondered if the reason you are having to pin shoulders is because your bullets arnt performing the best?

Not at all my bullets perform just lovely, I bust shoulders because I want too

 

[Smellydog]

Great, I do the same, but following your choice of bullet by saying just pin them through the shoulders doesn’t do much to validate the effectiveness of the expansion of your non toxic load. You could use full metal jacket bullets if you pin the shoulders and get on fine

Legally you can not use a bullet not designed to expand.

 

[RCS Deer Management]

Legally you can not use a bullet not designed to expand.

As everyone on this site knows. I wasn’t recommending people to do it, it was a technical point on the effectiveness of shot placement, not a recommendation

 

[Smellydog]

As everyone on this site knows. I wasn’t recommending people to do it, it was a technical point on the effectiveness of shot placement, not a recommendation

A newbie might not.

 

[Sol]

For anyone curious here's the exit I would say no expansion in this case, Its an especially small hole even for the .222

 

[Smellydog]

For anyone curious here's the exit I would say no expansion in this case, Its an especially small hole even for the .222 View attachment 476760

Norma ammunition was notorious at one time for having a tough bullet.

 

[Sol]

Norma ammunition was notorious at one time for having a tough bullet.

These are sako but If I'm right he was using norma.

Only downside Is how devastating they are, great round but horrendous for salvaging meat I've effectively exploded deer with them and Its not like there a fallow or sika, soon as that rib-cage bruises and gets bloodshot cleaning it up In all reality really isn't worth the time and effort, neck shots are preferred by him but there still incredibly situational rather than an automatic choice with a chest shot as an after thought.

Ignore the size of the doe but a more standard exit, some of the pheasant syndicate had came up and ended up shooting a doe In late october I caught up with her in november, during one of those winter storms as I was dragging her back the wind was completely exposing her rear end no wonder she was on her feet feeding herself at 12pm considering the wet start too the year I think shooting her before she truly declined (mind you she weighed 15-16lbs?) was a good choice.

 

[Mungo]

For anyone curious here's the exit I would say no expansion in this case, Its an especially small hole even for the .222 View attachment 476760

I may have missed this earlier in the thread - Sako or Norma bullet?

 

[Tim.243]

For anyone curious here's the exit I would say no expansion in this case, Its an especially small hole even for the .222 View attachment 476760

It is not bruising it is blood pooling, as you have a exit so the blood then seeps into and around the void from the exit channel.

The blood has to go somewhere and that is what you are seeing.

Take a heavy fall, after a blood test, hit in the wrong place by a paint ball, an elderly person has a fall and that bruise looks dreadful with is spreading a long way under the skin but over time it is absorbed and is fine.
With respect, shooting deer with a centre fire rifle in the H/L area close to the one organ that is responsible for pumping blood around the body then you will have trauma around that area, if it runs (as deer do) the blood will spread under that tissue area.


Shoot one in the mid neck and it is often a big ball of jelled mess around where the round went in as the neck absorbs the energy, but in the ones I cut up shot (150gn lead .270) in the neck the trauma area is small.

Every shot on a deer is different as there will always be factors which influence the shot so each shot is unique (close) but unique so the out come will be different.
A muntjac the other day was 150 yds 100gn Norma s/point quartering away so I went in the shoulders, it wrote both shoulders off which I knew would happen, I accepted that would be the case so skinned down to the front legs with those and the skin/neck going in the bin.

 

[Buchan]

A fiend of mine @hannah123 shot a roebuck last summer. .308 180gr sp very little reaction.
It then started to slowly walk off. I thought lungs, it’ll soon go down.
Couldn’t get a follow up shot.
UKTDR came out first light next morning.
A 7/800 m track and we found it stone dead.
It had only just died. Eyes still bright etc.

Perfect placement but no expansion of the bullet.

Not only no expansion, but you may well have been through mostly muscle (see photo) and the hole in the heart was smaller than the aorta so blood to the brain would still be good.

 

[Tim.243]

Not only no expansion, but you may well have been through mostly muscle (see photo) and the hole in the heart was smaller than the aorta so blood to the brain would still be good.

View attachment 476943

This red was shot at 165yds the 95gn round pencilled in/out the soft rib through the lungs
Picture 1 blood out the nose
Picture 2 hole through both lungs in front of the main gut.
small hole in small hole out
no trauma just 4 neat holes 2 in the ribs 2 in the lungs ran 20/25 yds
A quote from the GD " bring as many like that no waste at all"

 

[moeggesit]

Long story short, took someone to shoot a blesbuck a few years ago and used a .223. Wind was blowing a gale and at the shot heard the thwack and the ram ran away with the herd. Searched and followed the herd for about an hour or two inspecting all the animals for sign of wounding or bood but nothing showed. Went back to where they originally stood and found nothing. Saw a lone ewe but no sign of bleeding so carried on searching and kept an eye on the ewe a few hundred yards away and the herd on the opposite hill about 1000m away. Something did not look quite right about the ewe and followed it walking above it on a cliff. It was about to walk out of sight and decided to shoot it (did not want to shoot ewes) since I’m convinced something is wrong with it. When I got to it there was only the one hole and nothing else, bugger. Got the truck to pick up and kept looking for the wounded animal, see nothing.

While skinning found an odd bit of bruising under the skin and closer inspection a tiny hole in the skin, not a drop of blood on the outside. Turns out there was a second shot, did not exit and did not bleed. Little far back.

One of the reasons I don’t like using .22 cf on deer.