Is my barrel shot out?

[Tyla]

good evening tyla, i would be interested to know where you found that a 243 win rifle would do 7000 rounds ? 2000 rounds of 1 moa would be very lucky.!

I never did, I was told it but have since been told its miles out and the real number is closer to 2000 by all accounts. This pretty much explains the problem I think

 

[Tyla]

The rifle is booked in for a professional clean and service followed by borescope this morning. That should answer a few questions and help decide the next step

 

[kenbro]

The rifle is booked in for a professional clean and service followed by borescope this morning. That should answer a few questions and help decide the next step

I think I’d clean it myself then have it scoped rather than pay someone to clean it then pay tell you it’s kaput.
Kb.

 

[South Pender]

I never did, I was told it but have since been told its miles out and the real number is closer to 2000 by all accounts. This pretty much explains the problem I think

The 2000 rounds is about right. I entered the accurate shooter excel barrel life calculator (link below) using 40 gr. of IMR 4350 with a 100-gr bullet for about 56,000 psi pressure, and the accurate barrel life estimate is about 1700 rounds. This figure should be close for any bullet weight and reasonable pressures. By anything approaching 7000 rounds, the throat erosion would be massive.

You are being redirected...

 

[ASl sniper.177]

The 2000 rounds is about right. I entered the accurate shooter excel barrel life calculator (link below) using 40 gr. of IMR 4350 with a 100-gr bullet for about 56,000 psi pressure, and the accurate barrel life estimate is about 1700 rounds. This figure should be close for any bullet weight and reasonable pressures. By anything approaching 7000 rounds, the throat erosion would be massive.

You are being redirected...

The 243 Winchester is known as a hard round on barrels. I once shot out a new custom barrel in 243 Ackley in under 3 years shooting deer and foxes. Sounds impressive,but that only amounted to 1200 deer and foxes,plus any load development. That barrel was exceptionally accurate,but when it went south,it literally dropped of a cliff accuracy wize. It would have been a waste of time setting it back an inch,as the first 2-3 inches were fire cracked beyond belief. I doubt there's ever been a .243 rifle that's shot 7000 rounds. Remember,an Inch and a half group at 100 yards equats to 3 inches at 200 yards. Nearly a shotgun pattern. I'm pretty sure your barrel is shot out.

 

[Heym SR20]

Light barrel rifles - to get good tight groups you should really let barrel cool completely between shots.

A hunting rifle will shoot 95% of shots at game from a cold barrel.

As for practical accuracy, what matters is whether the rifle, scope, other bits and pieces, ammo and the rifle shooter can place a bullet consistently in the kill zone of the intended target and intended range.

And there is a big difference between whats required to win a shooting competition and putting a deer in the freezer at 100 plus or minus 50 yards or metres.

 

[South Pender]

Light barrel rifles - to get good tight groups you should really let barrel cool completely between shots.

You've raised a relevant point here that bears on extending barrel life. Allowing time for the barrel to cool between shots will not only lead to tighter groups from sporter-weight barrels but also extend barrel life. In an earlier version of the Accurate Shooter excel barrel life calculator, there was an input variable that indexed the time between shots. The barrel life result calculated for, say, 10 seconds between shots was lower than for the same data, but with 60 seconds between shots. For some reason, that input variable was removed from the present version of the calculator.

 

[bob_lee_swagger]

Take it to a Smith and get a bore scope up it. I did this recently with my .243 after it wasn't behaving like it should.
Took a pic of how bad it was below
(thats where the barrel meets the action)
Rest of the barrel has similar looking micro fractures and some pitting.
But it was 20 years old, had a few thousand rounds through it and spent 10 years in a "friend's" cabinet un-used and un-cleaned before I bought it back 18 months ago.
Its now away being re-barreled and some other fettling done.

 

[ASl sniper.177]

Take it to a Smith and get a bore scope up it. I did this recently with my .243 after it wasn't behaving like it should.
Took a pic of how bad it was below
(thats where the barrel meets the action)
Rest of the barrel has similar looking micro fractures and some pitting.
But it was 20 years old, had a few thousand rounds through it and spent 10 years in a "friend's" cabinet un-used and un-cleaned before I bought it back 18 months ago.
Its now away being re-barreled and some other fettling done.View attachment 374425

If you shoot 300-350 foxes and deer per year,obviously,your barrel won't last as long. And,what's one person's view of acceptable accuracy is totally different from others.

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

Advice wanted pleased.

What are the symptoms of a shot out barrel?

My 243 weatherby vanguard has been my go to rifle for a long time and was second hand when I bought it. I dont know the shot count but I don't think it can be as high as 7000 which is what the Internet think is the limit for that barrel.

While attempting to find a good homeload for it yesterday it has become apparent its not grouping as well as it did. This was also the case last time we tried it 6 months ago but more so now than then. Its been killing deer all season but groups are now 1.5" plus at 100m which works fine in the field but not what I want on paper to be able to test loads

It doesn't scatter them entirely but seems to shoot 2 good ones and one an inch odd away, not always in same direction, in every group. We spent the whole day on it yesterday, tried different shooter, different scope, mod off / on, checked rail, barrel clearance, stock screws, different bullets, a good clean, a wide range of powders and seating depths. It will put bullet on bullet in some loads but then will throw 1 in every 3 somewhere else, not always in the same order either.

I've run out of ideas and the whole thing is very frustrating.

Has anyone else experienced anything similar?

Very rare for a hunting rifle to be truly shot out
Much more likely the bore is corroded from poor maintenance

Result can be the same
Usually a gradual drop off not a catastrophic crash

In my experience cleaning old and poor condition bores will exacerbate symptoms
They often take a few rounds to settle down and foul up

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

Take it to a Smith and get a bore scope up it. I did this recently with my .243 after it wasn't behaving like it should.
Took a pic of how bad it was below
(thats where the barrel meets the action)
Rest of the barrel has similar looking micro fractures and some pitting.
But it was 20 years old, had a few thousand rounds through it and spent 10 years in a "friend's" cabinet un-used and un-cleaned before I bought it back 18 months ago.
Its now away being re-barreled and some other fettling done.View attachment 374425

Shot worse….

Picture means nothing
The paper is the only thing to check

May I remind you:

Barrel condition

Before cleaning: After cleaning: two careful owners. Discuss:

www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk

 

[Ginc]

Take it to a Smith and get a bore scope up it. I did this recently with my .243 after it wasn't behaving like it should.
Took a pic of how bad it was below
(thats where the barrel meets the action)
Rest of the barrel has similar looking micro fractures and some pitting.
But it was 20 years old, had a few thousand rounds through it and spent 10 years in a "friend's" cabinet un-used and un-cleaned before I bought it back 18 months ago.
Its now away being re-barreled and some other fettling done.View attachment 374425

Barrel of my Savage rifle looks similar after about 100 rounds. Not affecting accuracy.

 

[ASl sniper.177]

Shot worse….

Picture means nothing
The paper is the only thing to check

May I remind you:

Barrel condition

Before cleaning: After cleaning: two careful owners. Discuss:

www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk

If you've seen enough bore scoped rifle barrels,you'll realise how bad some barrels are! Forget about the first inch of rifling,you can loose three inches or more on a badly worn barrel. Been there,seen it!

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

If you've seen enough bore scoped rifle barrels,you'll realise how bad some barrels are! Forget about the first inch of rifling,you can loose three inches or more on a badly worn barrel. Been there,seen it!

Agreed

Its the ones that look great but don’t shoot that are the challenge

 

[ASl sniper.177]

Agreed

Its the ones that look great but don’t shoot that are the challenge

I once tried to sort out a rifle for a head keeper,which was shooting all over the place. Long story short,I changed the scope,mounts and had the moderator on and off. Plus,had the stock changed to a GRS stock. Added to that,the barrel was replaced with a a custom barrel. At the end of all that,it shot as bad as ever. The only thing that was left of the original rifle was,the action. Sometimes you get a good rifle,sometimes you don't.

 

[bob_lee_swagger]

Shot worse….

Picture means nothing
The paper is the only thing to check

May I remind you:

Barrel condition

Before cleaning: After cleaning: two careful owners. Discuss:

www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk

Agreed

I guess though in the case of the person who posted this thread. If its not behaving as expected and accuracy is lacking, they've tried everything else.
Surely having a look up the barrel would be a good next step?

 

[VSS]

Light barrel rifles - to get good tight groups you should really let barrel cool completely between shots.

Someone once told me that. I'd only just bought my first cf rifle, and was dabbling in reloading. And, like a fool, I believed him. 20 minutes to cool between shots, he told me. And sent me off with 25 rounds to test (5 each of 5 different seating depths). The b*****d!!!!
8 hours later I was badly sunburnt, and a bit wiser.

 

[biffo]

Advice wanted pleased.

What are the symptoms of a shot out barrel?

My 243 weatherby vanguard has been my go to rifle for a long time and was second hand when I bought it. I dont know the shot count but I don't think it can be as high as 7000 which is what the Internet think is the limit for that barrel.

While attempting to find a good homeload for it yesterday it has become apparent its not grouping as well as it did. This was also the case last time we tried it 6 months ago but more so now than then. Its been killing deer all season but groups are now 1.5" plus at 100m which works fine in the field but not what I want on paper to be able to test loads

It doesn't scatter them entirely but seems to shoot 2 good ones and one an inch odd away, not always in same direction, in every group. We spent the whole day on it yesterday, tried different shooter, different scope, mod off / on, checked rail, barrel clearance, stock screws, different bullets, a good clean, a wide range of powders and seating depths. It will put bullet on bullet in some loads but then will throw 1 in every 3 somewhere else, not always in the same order either.

I've run out of ideas and the whole thing is very frustrating.

Has anyone else experienced anything similar?

Try specsavers

 

[cooksey]

The 243 Winchester is known as a hard round on barrels. I once shot out a new custom barrel in 243 Ackley in under 3 years shooting deer and foxes. Sounds impressive,but that only amounted to 1200 deer and foxes,plus any load development. That barrel was exceptionally accurate,but when it went south,it literally dropped of a cliff accuracy wize. It would have been a waste of time setting it back an inch,as the first 2-3 inches were fire cracked beyond belief. I doubt there's ever been a .243 rifle that's shot 7000 rounds. Remember,an Inch and a half group at 100 yards equats to 3 inches at 200 yards. Nearly a shotgun pattern. I'm pretty sure your barrel is shot out.

3 inches at 200 yards would still kill plenty with heart lung shots.

 

[NP435]

My definition of a shot out barrel is seeing keyholes in paper. cleaning all copper and fouling out, along with a few say 10 passes with JB Compound should work.