The hole's already been dug by the rest of them. I'm just trying to get them to put the specs on whilst they happily fall down into it.
Is this what this country is coming too
- Thread starter David.evans
- Start date
The hole's already been dug by the rest of them. I'm just trying to get them to put the specs on whilst they happily fall down into it.
Dunwaters
Well-Known Member
No one comes from Rhodesia anymore regardless of race, gender or orientation.
The country formerly known as Rhodesia became Zimbabwe over 40 years ago.
As for asking people where they hail from, its a fairly standard conversation starter, it gives a point of reference.
In the case being discussed it looks like there was confusion caused in an elderly persons mind when the given name and attire did not coincide with what would usually be expected from the stated location, clarification was sought.
Which should hardly qualify as flogging offence.
Some people do seem to trail their coats a bit.
Clarification was sought poorly. Again, She asked and did not accept that the person's nationality is "British".
And regarding Rhodesia/Zimbabwe, if a person came from there prior to the change, they still would say "Rhodesia". Just look above. The point is, by the logic of the questioning, they cannot claim to be really from Rhodesia or Zimbabwe (if you want to prefer). Because they are white. Same how I, Ms Falani and many others, apparently cannot "really" be from Britain because we are not white.
With regards to being a fairly standard conversation starter, you must have glossed over my original post. There is nothing wrong, with asking someone (myself included) where they am from. But continued asking of "No but where are you really from" or "No, but what is your nationality" is shite patter and poor English language skills. You are not trying to find out either of those things. You want to know where my family originate from, what my heritage may be. So sure. Ask about that.
I pointed out elsewhere (potentially here as well). Why does the question "Where are you from" need to be repeated 3-4 times, because you didn't actually want to know where I am from. You want to know where my parents/grandparents/great-grandparents are from...
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Dunwaters
Well-Known Member
A repeated question usually indicates that the answer has caused confusion.
Which it obviously did, said confusion being in no small measure due to the efforts made to distance themselves from the cultural norms in both the dress code and name conventions of their birthplace by one of the parties.
If you set out to be deliberately ambivalent you shouldn’t get affronted when asked for clarification.
Or indicates you've asked an ambivalent or incorrect question. To quote Werner Erhart, insanity is "repeating identical behavior* and expecting a different result." *Exhibited here by asking the same question over and over. Though maybe its a sign of my own insanity for attempting to explain it to you.
Why is the onus on the person being asked to have to interpret exactly what the ambivalent question being asked wants to find out? Why can you not just ask a more relevant, clearer, or less ambiguous question?
If I asked you, "What are you?"
Do I want to know, are you Irish? A man? A Catholic? A Pisces? A rugby man? It's fine, I'll just keep repeating "What are you?" To you until you tell me what I actually wanted to know.
If the lady in question was so upset by the questioning (given that her dress and name could cause confusion) why did she not ask the questioner why she was repeating the question when it had already been answered? While I understand what you are saying surely you would challenge the questioner or abuser in the contexts to which you refer.
If circumstances permit. I'm not confident on what the etiquette of such an event would be? When I received my protocol training (used to pipe at Edinburgh Castle/Holyrood Palace) you do not ask questions of those "hosting" the event. You answer whatever question they pose, you do not ask them to clarify their context (i.e. question them). They are your social "betters" in that event (regardless of race, religion etc...) and they are the ones asking the questions.
Dunwaters
Well-Known Member
There was nothing ambivalent about the question, there was however, a clear inconsistency between the answer and what the questioner observed and expected to hear, her prejudices if you prefer.
The offended person deliberately set and baited the trap herself, she can there for hardly cry “foul” when some unsuspecting person falls into it.
What she did was the equivalent of Robin Williams dressing as Mrs Doubtfire and then shrieking with outrage when addressed as Mrs. because he’s been mis-gendered.
You seem to be taking this quite seriously and you also seem to think that theres a right/wrong answer, there isn’t.
This is another one of those interminable subjects that never gets resolved because what’s right or wrong is entirely dependant on who you are, what you personally believe and constantly evolving societal norms.
On the stalking front I’ve had a pretty horrible day so far, went down to get a couple of hinds and the car collapsed stone dead deep amongst the trees. I had to call the Mrs, 2 hour drive. My popularity level is now hovering around alligator in the swimming pool levels and my stash of brownie points has diminished like a crypto currency valuation following a full forensic audit.
I still have to buy and erect the Christmas tree, organise the car rescue walk the dogs and light the fire.
How’s your day?
"Where are you from". Well I am from Edinburgh, as that is where I live and call my home. Or I could say Glasgow, because that was where I was born. Or, you would want me to say, Malaysia as that is where my parents are from. Or, would you want me to say, China, because that is where my 4x great grandparents are from. Or I could say I am from <insert charity name here>. To be honest, that final answer, what the charity is that I am representing, I would actually feel is the most correct answer to that question contextually. Because I am at that event representing them, they are the reason why I am there, not anything else...
The fact that 1 question, has easily 5 answers, all "correct" surely indicates that the question is ambivalent. (Which actually is the wrong word now I think of it. What we are really meaning is ambiguous)
You've hit it on the head here. As I tried to tell bolt gun. As a white British/Irish man, have any of you been asked, in Britain/Ireland by another white person, "Where are you from?" then "Oh but, what is your nationality?"
It can't be answered in the affirmative by the vast (if not total) majority in this thread, because this just simply doesn't happen. So of course I would take this quite seriously, as it does actually happen to me, and fairly frequently, from people of all age groups and social backgrounds.
It's like if someone with no connection to stalking, or the environment tried to come in here and tell people that they can't shoot lead because they've read that it's toxic and you must shoot non-toxic. People on here (and on most other shooting forums) are up in arms about it, because they see it as people with no clue or experience on it trying to wade in on an argument that has no personal impact on them.
Pretty good, as the missus hasn't spent the whole day getting me to chauffeur her around Edinburgh like she usually does on a weekend
Hope the car won't be too much of a bother to fix (excuse though maybe to get a new one?). I have wondered though, what happens if the car breaks down and the recovery chaps come and see me there with a shotgun and a slab or two (at least) of cartridges in hand, waiting for them to give me a lift back to town...
You should practice just being yourself....
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Utectok
Well-Known Member
Apparently I sound antipodean????
I’ll just leave this here. From at least 2018, so not a new issue…
alberta boy
Well-Known Member
Yeah , but what part of Canada are you from ..... eh ?
Thank you - if I have not understood something (like why a question is repeated when an answer has already been given) I see no harm in asking why - it is a lot safer than guessing and acting on a wrong premise no matter to whom you are talking.
alberta boy
Well-Known Member
I live in Alberta , finding someone , other than first nations people , who was born here , is pretty hard . Polite curiosity is fine , repeating the same question over and over until you get the answer that fits your preconceptions isn't . It really isn't a difficult concept to grasp . It is usually one of the first questions you'll be asked when meeting someone new here . Mostly because we're all from somewhere else .
On a more humorous note , and this thread needs one , a friend of mine faced a reverse situation many times when we were in the North . We were working on the Arctic coast in what is now Nanavut , a beautiful place full of amazing people . Tod was born in Alberta but is third generation Japanese , or as he insists , Aino , his people were from Hokkaido originally , so he does look very similiar to the Inuit people we were working with . So much so , that they would walk up to him and speak Inuit ( generally to ask where his people were from , first nations always want to know what tribe/band you belong to ) and he would have to correct them and tell them he was ethnically Japanese . Long story short , they didn't believe him and continued to try and speak Inuit with him , just slower so he could understand . In the end , Tod would just answer them in Japanese , which ended further conversation . After a few days of regrouping , they started to talk to him in English and everything worked out fine . The Inuit are probably the kindest and most open hearted people I've ever known , so there was no ill intent , but it was funny .
In the end , try and look at things from both sides and have some empathy for your fellow humans , the world has enough hate and division . It doesn't take much effort to show a little understanding and we'll all be better off for it .
Grandpa ramble over , AB
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