Ivermectin, for the interested

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Er, you are a bit naive about how this thing works. For sure it has you baffled, but simply look at it from the perspective of those countries which cannot afford the vaccine bill - there's rather a lot of people being saved, in many parts of the world, who have no access to the vaccine. How are they doing this, whole city blocks being treated, and not a case of Covid in them as a result?

The implications of the suggestion that our goverments are handling things badly is not comfortable for one to arrive at, but look around you, then look beyond the shores of Europe, and see how things are being managed elsewhere?
Then enlighten us. You are not actually answering anything. Why am I being naive? Are you saying that all of these governments are in league with the drug companies to make money? If so, where is the evidence? I have not said anywhere in my posts that any government is handling things well. Some are probably doing better than others and some are doing worse. But you seem to be suggesting fraud on a grand scale involving many different goverments around the world. Or am I misunderstanding you? Can you tell me where I can find the information on the city blocks where they have all been saved by Ivermectin? I am open to the possibilities of other helpful solutions to this pandemic but I just don't see why countries around the entire globe are destroying their economies if there was a simple low cost alternative. Again. It does not make sense. It is illogical.

If this simple solution works, surely some bright spark in a government somewhere would think, "hey we can use this, keep our economy going and get an advantage over all those countries where the idiots aren't using it"
 
Sorry for not getting back to you sooner, I had some lead residues I was turning into gold (- delivering venison); I'm not into the conspiracy business, and I'm the messenger of the piece, not the expert, so you'll forgive me if I suggest you read and reasearch for yourself, as I did, then take the trouble to enquiry with the experts (dr Carvallo's email address is readily available, as is that of the FLCCC alliance, and pose your doubts to them.

When my computer screen freezes, I don't call Apple, and demand an explanation, I figure it out for myself, I'd like to think you are capable of doing likewise, the thread title is the clue - if you are interested, you could do worse than take a look at the information posted in the 'vaccine makes no sense' thread also here.

Ask yourself - who are the idiots of the piece - those who are using it, like the doctors in the front line safeguarding their own lives and protecting others whilst reducing to zero the risk of viral shedding, the countries whose health administrations which have chosen the alternative path, or those following blindly the 'Western' management strategy that has got is "this far"?


 
I have taken the time to read and listen to the links you have posted, but to be honest I don't really find anything concrete. There are some doctors that are promoting this stuff but very few places where it is generally being prescibed and of those it seems the big ones in Brazil for example, are one unqualified man making a decision, (ie. the mayor) I couldn't find anything about whole city blocks being saved by Ivermectin. Do you have a link for that? I can see there are cases where they are saying it helps somewhat with recovery time and severity but nothing about protection of the degree you are suggesting. As for the FLCCC Alliance. They obviosly have a single message and I am not sure I would trust them over the many more doctors and scientists that are looking at this disease.

Again I ask the question. If it is so effective why are we not using it and saving our economies? That still doesn't make any sense to me. Can you at least try and explain your take on that question.
 
Still not coming up with anything concrete. Where in Africa, can you point me in the direction of the info you have.

The above video clearly states "this is not medical advice" "this is WBDR opinion only" The study is also "in Vitro" so doesn't really seem to be more confirmation.
 
That's a very odd statement. Are you getting personal?
I have an enquiring but pragmatic mind and as yet you and all of the information you have posted has not made me change it. As with your contributions in the other post where a someone said he would not be suggesting his patients take it until there is some robust proof.
If and when there is robust proof from proper trials I will quite happily accept the evidence.

Can you point me in the direction of a country where they have widespread use of Ivermectin. I can't seem to find anything other than some info from South American countries where hundreds of thousands of doses have been handed out. But that doesn't seem to equate to widespread use, even in those countries. You mentioned it was saving African lives, can you point me in the direction of that information as I can't seem to find anything to substantiate that?
 
That's a very odd statement. Are you getting personal?
I have an enquiring but pragmatic mind and as yet you and all of the information you have posted has not made me change it. As with your contributions in the other post where a someone said he would not be suggesting his patients take it until there is some robust proof.
If and when there is robust proof from proper trials I will quite happily accept the evidence.

Can you point me in the direction of a country where they have widespread use of Ivermectin. I can't seem to find anything other than some info from South American countries where hundreds of thousands of doses have been handed out. But that doesn't seem to equate to widespread use, even in those countries. You mentioned it was saving African lives, can you point me in the direction of that information as I can't seem to find anything to substantiate that?
I read an article published by the Lancet a few days ago re Ivermectin trials, and previously read an article where its use had been trialled in some Florida hospitals. Pretty sure I've read a reference to its use in Egypt and India, but that may have been anecdotal. There certainly seems more interest in its use now.
 
I read an article published by the Lancet a few days ago re Ivermectin trials, and previously read an article where its use had been trialled in some Florida hospitals. Pretty sure I've read a reference to its use in Egypt and India, but that may have been anecdotal. There certainly seems more interest in its use now.
I also read something in the lancet, but it seems to be quite limited. I just don't see the evidence yet. It would be fantastic if there was and it could help.
 
The NIH has shifted their stance on Ivermectin use for covid. Not yet full endorsement. Clearly more trials required for that.

But the data is stacking up and the names of the medical professionals investigating its use are increasing:


 
Another article (not study and only provisionally accepted) from FLCCC. As I say there just isn't the evidence yet. Maybe that will change if more medical professionals get behind it, but it's not there yet and may never be
 
That's a very odd statement. Are you getting personal?
I have an enquiring but pragmatic mind and as yet you and all of the information you have posted has not made me change it. As with your contributions in the other post where a someone said he would not be suggesting his patients take it until there is some robust proof.
If and when there is robust proof from proper trials I will quite happily accept the evidence.

Can you point me in the direction of a country where they have widespread use of Ivermectin. I can't seem to find anything other than some info from South American countries where hundreds of thousands of doses have been handed out. But that doesn't seem to equate to widespread use, even in those countries. You mentioned it was saving African lives, can you point me in the direction of that information as I can't seem to find anything to substantiate that?
Apologies again for late response, work in the frost here was getting in the way.

To answer your points in turn:
The statement may or may not be felt odd, but I think I am correct in terms of the geological makeup of Denmark, I have no knowledge of the grit within. A friend of a friend used to sell fine Danish sand to the Arabs, believe it or not ( a useful primer - much like the subject in hand, come to think of it🤔); no, nothing personal, I was rather drawing an analogy perhaps best expanded upon a little for the benefit of others; as you may by now be aware, I am no stranger to Denmark, much of its political and cultural values, as well as benefitting from insights into the mindset of some of the Danish folk over many years now, and how those are represented, both inwardly, and indeed to the wider world, as well as how, in turn, they are perceived by others. I'll try to avoid sweeping generaliastions, nonetheless.

You say you have an enquiring but pragmatic mind - so far so similar, good - but I'm sorry if you feel in some way that I am writing here to somehow change your mind from your well explained views, that is not my purpose at all, nor am I seeking to do so, the settled answers to the doubts or issues with the information I have provided will still have to arrive, perhaps as they similarly did to our known historical shared King, Canute (Knut), by your own experiences and efforts. I'm not in the slightest bit trying to sway you toward any way of thinking which may be felt even slightly uncomfortable to you, that is a judgement call you yourself will decide if and when to arrive at in due course, the party in this case will be ongoing for some time to come, and there'll be plenty refreshment to go around as, when & indeed if you decide to join, or indeed not, it really doesn't matter, nor does it much change the rotatation of the world.

I'm neither suggesting that the good doctor commenting need trouble himself with such 'witchcraft' from these darker continents you mention in passing - he is not paid by the taxpayer here to bend the rules, but to go by the book, and the book is quite clear presently where it stands on the matter of Ivermectin. I'm equally sure it's the same over the North Sea with yourselves. Cultural and political differences in our mindsets come into play at this stage, however. Whereas Denmark has a fantastic cradle to grave suite of social services (and a tax system suitably avaricious to foot the bill for same, all approved by, and voted for by the good Danish people who benefit) including a wonderful health service, we here in Scotland may in parts seek to emulate such a great system, but alas we lack the wherewithal to pay for it, and so we have to rely a little more on enterprise at a more personal level. It is quite clear that you are unpersauded by the unconventional means by which the Ivermectin angle in our story has been arrived at, and I'm sure others too will have some reservations about a thing such as a medicine being potentially dual purpose. Many of us too will have 'grave reservations'😷 about taking responsibility for our own health and care, the more so if we feel we are already paying others to decide and do the heavy lifting on our behalf. This independent thought, though, to some on this side of the water, is not such a novel concept. Unlike yourself, my own enquiring mind rather seeks to find out more on this matter, whereas you seem to have for the present drawn your line in the aforementioned sand, and may prefer not to contact the numerous addresses and contact references contained within the papers who remain convinced as to the veracity of, and that is all perfectly legitimate and fine too, indeed it is your right. In similar train, you will doubtless be guided by those medical staff whom you trust or can assure you as to your enquiries about this or that form of treatment, which is all very correct and as you see best. Where we part though is at the point where it is clearly not my desire here to do this work for you, as personally speaking, I do not need to know which mayor, of what city, in which land has issued the medicine and to whom, such 'granular' details I am willing to take at face value from those who say it is so. As ever, you and anyone else are most welcome to contact these people for yourself, and satisfy yourself as to these assertions.

A side vignette, for the gallery:
I recall many years ago now travelling by car toward Ikast in mid Jylland, when I was confronted by a novel sight - a roundabout! I know there are a great many these days, so it is quite true that times change, but in the Eighties this was a rare and novel sight, if I recall correctly, I think there were reckoned then to be no more than four in the entire Country, and people were known to actually drive to view this novel marvel of the highways. When I remarked about the roundabout and enquired about this with my Danish chum, he told me in somewhat lowered tones that a study had been made a few years previously, from which a report came to be published, the thrust of the findings being that, in the opinion of the person gathering the information, 'the Danish people may not be culturally prepared as yet to accept roundabouts'; of course we can laugh about such a conservative notion now, and I'm sure there are far more roundabouts in use throughout the land today, but the thing that struck me was not so much the findings of the report, but the fact that it was felt necessary to have a feasibility study in the first place. So you see, these cultural differences may still influence our respective viewpoints.

Back to the matter in hand:
You may feel that Dr Hector Carvallo and colleagues do not in some way qualify in your own esteem as being medical professionals, and that is perfectly well for you to so decide. I have already pointed toward the information whereby you or indeed anyone else may or may not further satisfy their curiosity as to the countries where the numerous studies and trials have been undertaken, but I'm not in the business of spoonfeeding or fetching for you, this you will decide whether to do for and by yourself, I'm merely providing some of the means to achieve this to your own satisfaction, or otherwise, but any further breakdown of information or clarification will require some small effort by your own hand.

Like the other H C, H C Andersen, there will doubtless be a happy ending to the story, but I'm afraid to advise that it does rather involve 'turning over the pages' for oneself.

Keep digging!
 
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Thanks for the long reply. I have been digging as you say and am yet to be convinced. I am not an expert on these matters and would never pretend to be one. I for one would love to see a cheap, readily available and effective drug that could reduce the chance of catching or succumbing to Covid 19 but I, like the good doctor as you call him will need convincing by more than the information that is out there presently. But I'm going to leave it there for now.

I will make a final comment on your roundabout theory though. You're comments made me laugh as you are 100% right with it. Even now I there are unfortunately Danes that seem to have no idea about how to use a roundabout, even though there are a few more these days. That and the habit of braking on an open road, starting to turn and then signalling when they are already taking the turn instead of before it, still drive me nuts after living here for 9 years.
 
Thanks BryanDC, I guess the takeaway of the matter is that we all as individuals have our own 'threshold' of acceptability in a great many matters, and I fully recognise that the body of evidence is as yet incomplete when one does not accumulate and aggregate the numerous and diverse trials from many countries and sources, and certainly falls short of the governance or required standards of numerous (though clearly not all) Western National Health Services. I'm sure we too that all those interested would like to see more flesh put on the bones of the Ivermectin story, either to rule in or rule out its efficacy and or possible use at a National level down the line.

I think it has been demonstrated over the last twenty five years and 3.7 billion doses that it is beyond reasonable doubt to declare it a safe medicine, as indeed the WHO and FDA have declared it some years ago now.

Its means of function against SARS-COV 2 is well understood and considered effective, and to date no issues concerning potential side effects of any real significance or frequency have been uncovered.

Politically, Ivermectin is very much not the present preferred weapon of choice for the most part, not least because of the difficulty there is in making money for 'invested interests' with their own preferred vaccine solution/s, which have as yet to truly be demonstrated to perform to the levels of protection as they were claimed to in the trials. Unsurprisingly, no great impetus is felt necessary in terms of large scale trials for Ivermectin ( Papua New Guinea must be considered exceptional), even though the anecdotal strands from pretty much everywhere Ivermectin is being thus used seem to indicate very positive outcomes; this is where I am myself happy to take the risk:reward leap of faith, in truth I currently have more faith in Ivermectin than the various vaccines, which are quickly turning into so many pawns in a reinvigorated 'Grand Game' ; at least and as yet there is still widespread availability of Ivermectin; beyond this, we appear to be all on the same pathway, and only time will tell which is the better, safer bet.
 
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Thanks BryanDC, I guess the takeaway of the matter is that we all as individuals have our own 'threshold' of acceptability in a great many matters, and I fully recognise that the body of evidence is as yet incomplete when one does not accumulate and aggregate the numerous and diverse trials from many countries and sources, and certainly falls short of the governance or required standards of numerous (though clearly not all) Western National Health Services. I'm sure too, that all interested would like to see more flesh put on the bones of the Ivermectin story, either to rule in or rule out its efficacy and or possible use at a National level down the line.

I think it has been demonstrated over the last twenty five years and 3.7 billion doses that it is beyond reasonable doubt to declare it a safe medicine, as indeed the WHO and FDA have declared it some years ago now.

Its means of function against SARS-COV 2 is well understood and considered effective, and to date no issues comcerning potential side effects of any real significance or frequency have been uncovered.

Politically, Ivermectin is very much not the present preferred weapon of choice for the most part, not least because of the difficulty there is in making money for 'invested interests' with their own preferred solution/s, which have as yet to truly be demonstrated to perform to the levels of protection as they were claimed to in the trials. Unsurprisingly, no great impetus is felt necessary in terms of large scale trials for Ivermectin ( Papua New Guinea must be considered exceptional), even though the anecdotal strands from pretty much everywhere Ivermectin is being thus used seem to indicate very positive outcomes; this is where I am myself happy to take the risk:reward leap of faith, in truth I currently have more faith in Ivermectin than the various vaccines, which are quickly turning into so many pawns in a reinvigorated 'Grand Game' ; at least and as yet there is still widespread availability of Ivermectin; beyond this, we appear to be all on the same pathway, and time will tell which is the better, safer bet.
 
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