Ivermectin, for the interested

[Dalua]

It seems you're planning to use a veterinary medicine for an (unlicensed, obviously) indication (prophylaxis of Covid-19 infection) for which evidence is currently, at the absolute best, inconclusive; when your and Mrs FF's risk of actually catching the virus sounds as though it's pretty low in any case.
Is that correct?

 

[Freeforester]

Well, were not actually married...

 

[Freeforester]

Was live from about 1320 onwards.

David Davis MP around 28:20 onwards, 27 Jan Covid-19 update statement by PM; will dig it out, but meantime here's a taster of the questioner:

 

[Freeforester]

Comment view enabled:

 

[Freeforester]

Meanwhile, in Bratislava:



Some prescient points made in the comments, I see:

 

[Freeforester]

... and from Harare, where those in charge have been dropping with the virus, or so it would appear:

Zimbabwe OKs use of Ivermectin after officials' deaths

'We have to be careful to protect patients as well as not to deny them effective treatment regimes,' says Health Ministry - Anadolu Ajansı

www.aa.com.tr

Gotta wonder, why the government people aren't taking the vaccine, or are they somehow in the thrall of the
witch-doctor?

 

[Sharpie]

It seems you're planning to use a veterinary medicine for an (unlicensed, obviously) indication (prophylaxis of Covid-19 infection) for which evidence is currently, at the absolute best, inconclusive; when your and Mrs FF's risk of actually catching the virus sounds as though it's pretty low in any case.
Is that correct?

If so I suspect that he will be in good company with Zambezi, who on another thread indicated that he was already doing so as a prophylactic.

Zambezi, can you confirm that you are taking dog wormer ? If so, how's the self-medicating going ? And how long do you plan on keeping taking it for ? Do you know e.g. the half life for elimination in humans, particularly when using a veterinary formulation ? The human stuff is half gone in about 18 hours so I reckon you'd need to be popping the pills several times/week,, indefinitely. Obviously you won't have displayed any Covid symptoms, even if you have or had caught it because you are adamant that it is absolutely guaranteed to be 100% effective as a prophylactic, rather than as a treatment for those with Covid already, to hopefully ameliorate some symptoms, which is I think the main interest here.

Faith can be a wonderful comfort for those who have it, but I prefer to put my trust in evidence based medicine, and ISTM that any such evidence is sketchy at best, so far. Besides, the manufacturer's say it cannot possibly have any effect against Covid when used at the dose approved for humans, against parasitic worms. And yes, there can even then be side effects, as with almost all drugs.

Just Google e.g. "ivermectin patient safety data sheet" , choose your poison from the many preparations available e.g tablets, injectables, pastes etc. Study, attempt some read across or guesswork to what you think might be in the veterinary preparations, if you can discover it, then form your own view. If you do get poorly from it, do tell your GP what you have been up to, embarrassing though that might be.

 

[Freeforester]

Never mind, even if, in this case the 'early bird' can't get the worm/s, they can't catch Covid either!
What about the other half, of its half-life?

If you are correct, then surely by now Uttar Pradesh would be making up for lost time in the 'Mortality Times table' but, as Dr Sayed explained, it seems to persist (a bit like the effect of Ivermectin) in not quite bending to the will of you and our other betters, who would prefer it was not available for self medication. I don't think it's a glorified placebo of worth in a very limited time window, and it would appear that the 'betters' in rather many countries don't either, otherwise they'd not be approving its use; leaving aside the somewhat significant time element as to the nature of the problem we face globally, I suppose you can always point us to the RCT study that demonstrates that our 'betters' are demonstrably better than theirs of course, no?

Is a 75% reduction in hospital admissions, er, a big number, or a little number, I forget?

I wonder what might happen with the virus if everyone took it for a fortnight, just on an island, say, so as not to risk the rest of the world, it might be interesting to see what happened, for everyone, I'm sure.

 

[zambezi]

If so I suspect that he will be in good company with Zambezi, who on another thread indicated that he was already doing so as a prophylactic. - incorrect

Zambezi, can you confirm that you are taking dog wormer ? If so, how's the self-medicating going ?

I will start typing once my fit of laughter abates...

First up, I have already endured and survived C-19 and thus doubt I need vaccine or Ivermectin.

Dr John Campbell did a great piece on REACH data that shows those who suffered with the infection are likely to have long-lasting immunity to future re-infection.

Also, 2003 SARs survivors have demonstrable immunity to SARS-CoV-2. The two viruses are genetically 86% same. If 2003 survivors' immunity lasted 16 years, and also protects against a similar virus, I reckon I am good to go.

But...one function of lockdowns has been that rather than every not-at-risk-individual cop a dose of low-mortality-version-one and thus gain herd immunity quickly, we have protracted the time to herd immunity.

Viruses mutate over time. Lockdowns have allowed some very worrying mutations to proliferate. Some have the potential to undermine the current vaccination efficacy. See below.

My wife and her parents did not exhibit many C-19 symptoms during my extended [bed-ridden] C-19 illness and they had been in contact with me. So perhaps their natural immunity is sufficient.

Almost a year after my illness, my octagenarian MIL caught the virus in hospital whilst having her hip fracture treated. She remained asymptomatic throughout.

The government have pinned their colours to the mast: Whitty-Ferguson-lockdowns+vaccines. I am unpersuaded that they have navigated the best path. I suspect that if I rely on the govt, some I love may pass.

Ivermectin is safe to ingest. It is a W.H.O. approved essential drug. 3.7 billion doses administered since the 80s. [albeit for parasitic treatment]

A growing number of eminent scientists and doctors are reviewing the data that supports Ivermectin is effective against SARS-CoV-2 replication in the host and thus the killer cytokine storm is averted.

Anyone that does not have some Ivermectin in their domestic first aid kit to deploy as treatment [see below FLCCC dosage] is placing all their confidence in the govt strategy. Like Ff, my risk analysis finds that position wanting.

 

[Freeforester]

BBC Radio 4's world at one today, 28 January, 13.25 Prof Sharon Peacock CBE from the London School of Health and Tropical Medicine reckoned we are in for a rather long haul in trying to combat an adaptive and changing coronavirus by means of the vaccine route. Worth checking out.

The next interviewee (13:31) mentioned that long Covid also seems to be becoming more commonly encountered among Covid survivors who have been affected by the newer strain - something that Ivermectin also is reported to combat...

BBC Radio 4 - World at One

Forty-five minutes of news, analysis and comment, with Sarah Montague.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Freeforester]

Edit to above, apologies. Should read London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, not Health. Timed out before I could amend.

Off topic slightly, but very much related to the fight against Coronaviruses generally, here's David Davis and John Campbell on the matter of the importance of taking Vitamin D for health at our latitudes:

 

[Sharpie]

Off topic slightly, but very much related to the fight against Coronaviruses generally, here's David Davis and John Campbell on the matter of the importance of taking Vitamin D for health at our latitudes:

I very much agree, even at the best of times in cloudy Britain many deplete their vit. d reserves over the winter. That should have been built up by exposure to sunlight outdoors during the sunnier weather, but won't have been happening so much last year, as been observed for quite a while, not just among ethnic groups who don't get out, or even insist their women cover up completely, with only a bit of their face showing, or who have dark skin, but also a thing as a result of previous advice on the supposed ,deadly effects of developing even a mild suntan, total sunblock, foreign legion hats, thin shorty wetsuits etc. being de-rigeur. Pale (and interesting) being the advice.

Rickets in children is actually quite a worry here, in certain communities, disgraceful in the 21st century.

But good luck finding high strength vit. D on the shelves of the supermarkets now, at least at mine it sells out immediately on day at delivery. I am guilty of snapping it up at three for the price of two, but only when I'm down to my last bottle, thinking of families who need much more to dose all members, children most importantly.

 

[Freeforester]

But good luck finding high strength vit. D on the shelves of the supermarkets now, at least at mine it sells out immediately on day at delivery. I am guilty of snapping it up at three for the price of two, but only when I'm down to my last bottle, thinking of families who need much more to dose all members, children most importantly.

A bit like the 'loo-roll riots of 2019' then! Thankfully less of an issue up here, where Ms. Jammy Stalin's word rules - ye dinna get out until she's said her piece on the 'Chavez Midday Message' show
(Advisory, - strong Gaelic content ):

 

[Sharpie]

I will start typing once my fit of laughter abates...

First up, I have already endured and survived C-19 and thus doubt I need vaccine or Ivermectin.

Dr John Campbell did a great piece on REACH data that shows those who suffered with the infection are likely to have long-lasting immunity to future re-infection.

Also, 2003 SARs survivors have demonstrable immunity to SARS-CoV-2. The two viruses are genetically 86% same. If 2003 survivors' immunity lasted 16 years, and also protects against a similar virus, I reckon I am good to go.

But...one function of lockdowns has been that rather than every not-at-risk-individual cop a dose of low-mortality-version-one and thus gain herd immunity quickly, we have protracted the time to herd immunity.

Viruses mutate over time. Lockdowns have allowed some very worrying mutations to proliferate. Some have the potential to undermine the current vaccination efficacy. See below.

My wife and her parents did not exhibit many C-19 symptoms during my extended [bed-ridden] C-19 illness and they had been in contact with me. So perhaps their natural immunity is sufficient.

Almost a year after my illness, my octagenarian MIL caught the virus in hospital whilst having her hip fracture treated. She remained asymptomatic throughout.

The government have pinned their colours to the mast: Whitty-Ferguson-lockdowns+vaccines. I am unpersuaded that they have navigated the best path. I suspect that if I rely on the govt, some I love may pass.

Ivermectin is safe to ingest. It is a W.H.O. approved essential drug. 3.7 billion doses administered since the 80s. [albeit for parasitic treatment]

A growing number of eminent scientists and doctors are reviewing the data that supports Ivermectin is effective against SARS-CoV-2 replication in the host and thus the killer cytokine storm is averted.

Anyone that does not have some Ivermectin in their domestic first aid kit to deploy as treatment [see below FLCCC dosage] is placing all their confidence in the govt strategy. Like Ff, my risk analysis finds that position wanting.



View attachment 190829

View attachment 190835

Sorry for the misinderstanding. But I distinctly remember you talking about this on some other thread and suggesting obtaining it by unorthodox means. I obviously put 2+2 together and got 5.

In the UK the human stuff is apparently very expensive, having limited application as yet, so not a priority to negotiate rock bottom pricing in vast quantities. Which would be required if it was to be widely rolled out as a prophylaxis. As that protocol (attribution please) makes clear.

Whereas in other,far away countries, it is very much so, where the minor risk of side effects is "the lesser of the two weevils" so to speak, compared with the endemic diseases that it was originally targeted for. And used much like veterinary wormers, periodically, not continuously.

 

[Sharpie]

A bit like the 'loo-roll riots of 2019' then! Thankfully less of an issue up here, where Ms. Jammy Stalin's word rules - ye dinna get out until she's said her piece on the 'Chavez Midday Message' show
(Advisory, - strong Gaelic content ):

But you are all red headed, pale skinned, burn instantly and get freckles. A genetic advantage advantage evolved over millennia in the higher lattitudes, together with the use of woad as a sunscreen whilst rampaging bare chested, clad only in a kilt.

Never surrender !

PS: ISTR the loo roll riots first started in 2020.

 

[Freeforester]

Regional variations apply, local difficulties, and all that, lol!

 

[zambezi]

In the UK the human stuff <Ivermectin> is apparently very expensive,

U.K. [NICE] approval for the human ingestion of Ivermectin as an anthelmintic already exists. [see below]

One proprietary formulation of Ivermectin available in U.K. pharmacies is Stromectol. [see below]

There is no chemical difference between the Ivermectin in equine anthelmintics compared to human tablet formulations.

There is a cost difference: 18mg Ivermectin is declared by FLCCC to be correct dose for a 90kg individual. Equine paste version for that dose is £1. Stromectol cost for same amount of Ivermectin is £170.

EDIT: It is worth noting that the FLCCC recommended dosage for covid is 6x that for its human use as an anthelmintic. Personal risk...

Obviously, there may be other additives in equine formulations which may make them less desirable for human consumption. That is a matter of personal research. Personal risk.




Dr Roby Mitchell describes how a human might dispense equine Ivermectin paste to treat covid:

Ivermectin | Drugs | BNF content published by NICE

View ivermectin information, including dose, uses, side-effects, pregnancy, breast feeding and directions for administration.

bnf.nice.org.uk

Stromectol (Ivermectin): Side Effects, Uses, Dosage, Interactions, Warnings

Stromectol (Ivermectin) may treat, side effects, dosage, drug interactions, warnings, patient labeling, reviews, and related medications including drug comparison and health resources.

www.rxlist.com

 

[Dalua]

Are there really oral ivermectin products licensed for human use in the UK? I know they're occasionally used, for example by dermatologists - but I thought the stuff prescribed was unlicensed imported gear, and hence indeed rather expensive.
Not that it matters, as I'm sure the n=2 Grampian-wide trial involving two people who probably weren't going to catch it anyway will lead to a widening of the licences of all the currently-available equine products.

Seriously, though - taking a vitamin D supplement at a sensible dose is certainly not a bad idea, for a number of reasons; and I'd be delighted if ivermectin turned out to be the answer to all our Covid-related problems.

 

[Freeforester]

If I'm not mistaken, in 2005 there was an instance of veterinary medication being approved for human use here in the UK, at least according to my fellow 'research assistant/runner' in this race. To further assuage any misgivings, there are still numerous Ivermectin-only products available, i.e. without the addition of other active ingredients.

I'll be back....

 

[Dalua]

If I'm not mistaken, in 2005 there was an instance of veterinary medication being approved for human use here in the UK, at least according to my fellow 'research assistant/runner' in this race. To further assuage any misgivings, there are still numerous Ivermectin-only products available, i.e. without the addition of other active ingredients.

Just for the sake of absolute clarity - nothing you've said, least of all this, even slightly assuages my misgivings.