Latest on Moderators being removed from FACs

[Deerhunter22]

I've been stalking in the UK and abroad for 15 years and never taken a DSC1. Will only take it if i'm at some point required to. It is NOT a necessity for the large majority of Section 1 shooters/stalkers.

See I felt I got a bit scammed, I got told it was coming and a must and it would help with my FAC, I don’t think it did make a difference at all tbh. Keep seeing it advertised on FB by certain people almost scaremongering this idea it’s going to be a requirement soon, (they’ve been posting the same thing for the last 4-5 years literally) guess they’ll be right eventually lol

But I think it will benefit me now I have my FAC as a lot of grounds and syndicates do require it and will require it more and more for there own insurances etc
So overall probably not harmless and a good way to learn and qualify yourself but is it a must ? Absolutely not and imo will make **** all difference getting a FAC, the law is the law and the law doesn’t say u need to have it!!

 

[shbangsteve]

You can, but - dont quote exact fees but:

FAC application fee £75
Doctors letter - £100 to £150
DSC1 - course plus test £250
Rifle - £800 for a decent 2nd hand T3, or basic new Howa.
Scope - another £500 to £1,000
Decent set of rings - £200
Moderator, bipod and sling - £500
Cabinet - £200

It soon adds up. Of course you can do it cheaper, but the cost of getting a firearm soon adds up. And its not just the cost of actual gun.

Where can you do a DSC 1 for £250 ?
near £400 where I have looked

 

[Chris Richardson]

You can, but - dont quote exact fees but:

FAC application fee £75
Doctors letter - £100 to £150
DSC1 - course plus test £250
Rifle - £800 for a decent 2nd hand T3, or basic new Howa.
Scope - another £500 to £1,000
Decent set of rings - £200
Moderator, bipod and sling - £500
Cabinet - £200

It soon adds up. Of course you can do it cheaper, but the cost of getting a firearm soon adds up. And it’s not just the cost of actual gun.

I paid 450 for a tikka .308 with mod , picked up a Zeiss for 350 and rings were another 60 , some years ago I got an unmoderated.270 for around £150 in fact I believe @Anser anser is using that rifle to good effect now , I put on a Edgar bros 8x56 that cost me around £100 …. So your figures are way off

 

[Heym SR20]

I've been stalking in the UK and abroad for 15 years and never taken a DSC1. Will only take it if i'm at some point required to. It is NOT a necessity for the large majority of Section 1 shooters/stalkers.

mandatory training is a requirement of the new legislation in Scotland. If you wish to stalk on your own you need to be on the approved persons register. DSC1 and 2 are pretty much the minimum requirement. You can get registered if you are highly experienced professional with references from other professionals.

 

[Anser anser]

I paid 450 for a tikka .308 with mod , picked up a Zeiss for 350 and rings were another 60 , some years ago I got an unmoderated.270 for around £150 in fact I believe @Anser anser is using that rifle to good effect now , I put on a Edgar bros 8x56 that cost me around £100 …. So your figures are way off

I paid 450 for a tikka .308 with mod , picked up a Zeiss for 350 and rings were another 60 , some years ago I got an unmoderated.270 for around £150 in fact I believe @Anser anser is using that rifle to good effect now , I put on a Edgar bros 8x56 that cost me around £100 …. So your figures are way off

Not had her out much but lovely gun. still not moderated

 

[12gsnapcaps]

mandatory training is a requirement of the new legislation in Scotland. If you wish to stalk on your own you need to be on the approved persons register. DSC1 and 2 are pretty much the minimum requirement. You can get registered if you are highly experienced professional with references from other professionals.

If I ever want to stalk in Scotland, I'll do the DSC1. I'm quite happy just managing Roe on my land and helping out on the odd cull day down south.
Most of my shooting with section 1 rifles is rabbits/foxes.
I'm not saying DSC1 is a waste of time (I think it has many benefits) just - specifically - that it's not mandatory at the moment for the majority of section 1 rifle shooters. At the moment, it's only mandatory for section 1 certificate holders who hold a deer legal calibre, conditioned for deer, who want to stalk in Scotland or who have other stipulations on their land of choice, ie: Syndicate.
That's my understanding, but I am open to be corrected if I am wrong

 

[Anser anser]

mandatory training is a requirement of the new legislation in Scotland. If you wish to stalk on your own you need to be on the approved persons register. DSC1 and 2 are pretty much the minimum requirement. You can get registered if you are highly experienced professional with references from other professionals.

This approved persons resgister guff i understood was a separate proposal??? from any DSC requirements and was yet again more smoke and mirrors to "create" a skilled responsible person clique simply becausesome jo bloggs who is a "responsible" chappie says so. Reeks of old boy network that does to me. Ill be blunt here on this. Certificates do not maketh the man nor the hunter be-in my humble opinion.. They are pieces of paper to say someone can shoot at a paper target in a controlled environment with little or none of the adrenalin /self control encountered in lining up live quarry on their own out in a wild place where that one shot is crucial with no retakes and they are multiple choice questions that can be regurgitated if read often enough without knowing any of the meat and potatoes behind the topic that question relates to. It beguiles me how a fella freshly gifted with a new FAC and a dsc1 can be viewed as having proven him or herself to be more skilled a hunter in some way than a chap who has shot his entire life and learnt every trick there is to learn from himself and his peers around him out in the woods where it matters without having sat in a classroom. Anyway rant over-- cup of tea anyone???

 

[Dan Newcombe]

Is now the time to do a 1 for 1 to convert any spare moderator slots into other rifle allowances?
You won’t need them come May and it’s better to have open slots that you don’t have to pay for.

 

[Heym SR20]

If I ever want to stalk in Scotland, I'll do the DSC1. I'm quite happy just managing Roe on my land and helping out on the odd cull day down south.
Most of my shooting with section 1 rifles is rabbits/foxes.
I'm not saying DSC1 is a waste of time (I think it has many benefits) just - specifically - that it's not mandatory at the moment for the majority of section 1 rifle shooters. At the moment, it's only mandatory for section 1 certificate holders who hold a deer legal calibre, conditioned for deer, who want to stalk in Scotland or who have other stipulations on their land of choice, ie: Syndicate.
That's my understanding, but I am open to be corrected if I am wrong

Up here it’s pretty much a requirement of Police Scotland for new FAC applicants to have DSC1 if they want a deer stalking condition on their ticket. The flip side is that we have none of the land clearance issues that you have south of the border, and those I know who have recently got an FAC is that they have no restrictions or mentor conditions from getgo.

 

[UpNorthMI]

There has not been much good news in firearms / shotgun legislature since I became involved in shooting in the early 1980's, at last it looks like common sense is going to be applied to sound moderator ownership. Assuming that this really happens it will be a success in the right direction for the shooting community and for the firearms administrative police teams to reduce a large part of their work load that gave little to public safety.

Well done to all involved in achieving this change. What else could realistically be changed?

 

[Anser anser]

Up here it’s pretty much a requirement of Police Scotland for new FAC applicants to have DSC1 if they want a deer stalking condition on their ticket. The flip side is that we have none of the land clearance issues that you have south of the border, and those I know who have recently got an FAC is that they have no restrictions or mentor conditions from getgo.

I gotta do this bumf soon i reckon so i will ask if anyone knows who runs the dsc courses close to me in east lothians?? If any one knows. Hopefully ill get something sorted before the summers over. I did have it booked for trochry but staying up there 3 days was inconvenient and costy i felt so i had to cancel

 

[Chris Richardson]

Up here it’s pretty much a requirement of Police Scotland for new FAC applicants to have DSC1 if they want a deer stalking condition on their ticket. The flip side is that we have none of the land clearance issues that you have south of the border, and those I know who have recently got an FAC is that they have no restrictions or mentor conditions from getgo.

Show them the home office guidelines, no mention of dsc there …

 

[Heym SR20]

There has not been much good news in firearms / shotgun legislature since I became involved in shooting in the early 1980's, at last it looks like common sense is going to be applied to sound moderator ownership. Assuming that this really happens it will be a success in the right direction for the shooting community and for the firearms administrative police teams to reduce a large part of their work load that gave little to public safety.

Well done to all involved in achieving this change. What else could realistically be changed?

Realistically a streamlining of certificates with a focus on the person rather than the individual guns themselves. This is already the case, and it follows the home office guidance.

A simple certificate or certificates with

1) basic level allowing you to possess and use shotguns with no particular limit to number and or what you can use them for - ie as per Shotgun Certificate.

2) a second level for rifles where you have to demonstrate need. For vermin control and deer management - an initial up to 3 rifles - either rimfires, or small centrefires, or if used on deer, deer legal cartridges. If you need additional rifles then demonstrate need for additional slots - eg for Dangerous Game overseas, or for wild boar.

For target shooting - an initial 1 or 2 rifles for each discipline you engage in. Further rifle slots can be added if you can demonstrate need.

No need for variations provided you do not exceed number specified.

Ammunition Allowance - 200 rounds per rifle you possess in the calibres of those rifles. Amount can be raised on demonstration of need. When you swap your rifle for a different calibre you should change your ammunition.

So for initial 3, you can get a 22lr, a 223, and 6.5cm, but then see the light of day and go into your local RFD and swap the 6.5CM for a 7x57. If you then need additional rifles you can get further slots on basis of demonstrating need.

Ditto for target shooting, you join a club which shoots traditional service rifles - you add on another slot.

By having such a system there is still tight control over the number of rifles and the amount of ammo in circulation - that is what really concerns the powers that be. There is no public safety benefit from all the paperwork currently required changing from a 7x57 to a .308, or indeed simply swapping one 243 for another 243.

It would be really good if you were able to borrow a rifle of a similar class from another FAC holder for a period of up to say 3 days without having to notify the police. In the same way that you can borrow a shotgun - makes life so much easier if travelling etc.

For new applicants do away with all the bollox of mentorships and land clearances etc. Instead ensure that new applicants are appropriately trained so that they can use rifles safely. I do think there is a big difference between shooting on a range under the supervision of a range officer and be out on your own shooting wild animals. Neither is safer nor more dangerous than the other, they just have very different requirements.

Precedent is already set in Northern Ireland, which arguably post "The Troubles" requires the tightest of gun controls, yet they seem to have the simplest system, a focus of the individual and still allow the possession and use of handguns for target shooting - I will let @Foxyboy43 and others in Northern Ireland to opine on how well the system works across there.

Given all the deer explosion down south and the need to shoot lots of deer, I can't help feeling that many current game shots will move across to shooting deer, especially if driven deer becomes a major method of culling as it is elsewhere in wooded parts of the world. The licencing system needs radical overhaul and simplification.

 

[Liveonce]

Realistically a streamlining of certificates with a focus on the person rather than the individual guns themselves. This is already the case, and it follows the home office guidance.

A simple certificate or certificates with

1) basic level allowing you to possess and use shotguns with no particular limit to number and or what you can use them for - ie as per Shotgun Certificate.

2) a second level for rifles where you have to demonstrate need. For vermin control and deer management - an initial up to 3 rifles - either rimfires, or small centrefires, or if used on deer, deer legal cartridges. If you need additional rifles then demonstrate need for additional slots - eg for Dangerous Game overseas, or for wild boar.

For target shooting - an initial 1 or 2 rifles for each discipline you engage in. Further rifle slots can be added if you can demonstrate need.

No need for variations provided you do not exceed number specified.

Ammunition Allowance - 200 rounds per rifle you possess in the calibres of those rifles. Amount can be raised on demonstration of need. When you swap your rifle for a different calibre you should change your ammunition.

So for initial 3, you can get a 22lr, a 223, and 6.5cm, but then see the light of day and go into your local RFD and swap the 6.5CM for a 7x57. If you then additional rifles you can get further slots.

Ditto for target shooting, you join a club which shoots traditional service rifles - you add on another slot.

By having such a system there is still tight control over the number of rifles and the amount of ammo in circulation - that is what really concerns the powers that be. There is no public safety benefit from all the paperwork revariation required changing from a 7x57 to a .308.

For new applicants do away with all the bollox of mentorships and land clearances etc. Instead ensure that new applicants are appropriately trained so that they can use rifles safely. I do think there is a big difference between shooting on a range under the supervision of a range officer and be out on your own shooting wild animals. Neither is safer nor more dangerous than the other, they just have very different requirements.

Precedent is already set in Northern Ireland, which arguably post "The Troubles" requires the tightest of gun controls, yet they seem to have the simplest system, a focus of the individual and still allow the possession and use of handguns for target shooting - I will let @Foxyboy43 and others in Northern Ireland to opine on how well the system works across there.

really glad you on our side, just think what harm you could do if you were not

 

[Foxyboy43]

Realistically a streamlining of certificates with a focus on the person rather than the individual guns themselves. This is already the case, and it follows the home office guidance.

A simple certificate or certificates with

1) basic level allowing you to possess and use shotguns with no particular limit to number and or what you can use them for - ie as per Shotgun Certificate.

2) a second level for rifles where you have to demonstrate need. For vermin control and deer management - an initial up to 3 rifles - either rimfires, or small centrefires, or if used on deer, deer legal cartridges. If you need additional rifles then demonstrate need for additional slots - eg for Dangerous Game overseas, or for wild boar.

For target shooting - an initial 1 or 2 rifles for each discipline you engage in. Further rifle slots can be added if you can demonstrate need.

No need for variations provided you do not exceed number specified.

Ammunition Allowance - 200 rounds per rifle you possess in the calibres of those rifles. Amount can be raised on demonstration of need. When you swap your rifle for a different calibre you should change your ammunition.

So for initial 3, you can get a 22lr, a 223, and 6.5cm, but then see the light of day and go into your local RFD and swap the 6.5CM for a 7x57. If you then additional rifles you can get further slots.

Ditto for target shooting, you join a club which shoots traditional service rifles - you add on another slot.

By having such a system there is still tight control over the number of rifles and the amount of ammo in circulation - that is what really concerns the powers that be. There is no public safety benefit from all the paperwork revariation required changing from a 7x57 to a .308.

For new applicants do away with all the bollox of mentorships and land clearances etc. Instead ensure that new applicants are appropriately trained so that they can use rifles safely. I do think there is a big difference between shooting on a range under the supervision of a range officer and be out on your own shooting wild animals. Neither is safer nor more dangerous than the other, they just have very different requirements.

Precedent is already set in Northern Ireland, which arguably post "The Troubles" requires the tightest of gun controls, yet they seem to have the simplest system, a focus of the individual and still allow the possession and use of handguns for target shooting - I will let @Foxyboy43 and others in Northern Ireland to opine on how well the system works across there.

Mixed bag over here I fear - sorta good in places. Imagine one part of the UK’s firearms licensing differing from another - Good Lord!
An aspiring shooting chap needs to have been a good boy (no convictions), sound mind etc., two referees and permission on ground (usually 2) considered suitable for choice of firearm - air/shotgun or rifle. Full bore rifle may necessitate inspection - policy is DSC1 or equiv for deer; increasingly “mentorship” is cropping up;
Club membership usually requires production of a clear Criminal Record check and one year probation before club will support new member acquiring a firearm;
It’s one certificate for all here (no slots) including pretty much all airguns with ALL air pistols restricted to approved club ranges only;
Ammunition is invariably 100/250 on initial grant but 1000 upon regrant (my pal moved to Scotland last year - the FEO couldn’t believe what he had - now he has a miserly 100!
For rifles we have a banded system - 1 for rimfire; 2 for c/f up to 22.250ish and 3 for beyond that - though a glassish ceiling of 300 winmag unless you make a very good case - there are a few .338s about…; You can do an across the counter purchase within these respective bands but not for a target/club rifle (no I don’t get that either);
Pistol possession is strictly approved ranges only and afaik no chambering limit but possibly a glass ceiling again;
There are no limits on the number/type of firearms held - providing one satisfies the essential justification criterion - e.g. several 9mms can be held for different competitions;
Club Pistol shooting is very healthy here with more clubs than ever before with lots of competitions running but not generally advertised outside the club circuit unlike Clay Pigeon.
Current Licensing system is a total mess; FACs in any form can be turned around in a few weeks or for a deer calibre take 18 months - our central licensing branch do not even answer the phone!