And how soon before the "anti" brigade start to investigate iron oxide poisoning in birds? Will that be before, or after, they start to investigate plastic pollution from these so called bio-degradable wads?
Lead ammunition restrictions - government announcement
- Thread starter Conor O'Gorman
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But they are not biodegradable wads, so you are happy to pollute the countryside with plastic for what the next thousand years.
Do get with it and use sustainable cartridges with biodegradable wads.
Frank Homes
Well-Known Member
I've heard him on the radio and you have it spot on.
"I am sure that many guns will fall into obsolescence over the next few years. Mostly this will be because they just get worn out and rather than repair / rebuild, they will just be replaced. I suspect many cartridges will become obsolete and others will come to the fore. We don’t see many 264 Win Mags these days. But the 6.5 PRC which pretty much mimics its performance is all the rage these days."
Im sure we will be hunting and shooting in the future too. The rifles, cmobination guns and shotguns I wanted 30y ago cant bee selled to a young hunter now. A drilling 12g/222rem are not so popular then a hunters hunt wildboar, fallow and reddeer in the same hunt who used to be roedeer by barking dog only. Side by side shotguns 3/4 or full choke were used for hare hunting with running dog not so popular any more. New animals to hunt in last 30 years seal, wildboar, wolf, bear, lynx, roedeer(in my area) and fallow.
Im sure we will be hunting and shooting in the future too. The rifles, cmobination guns and shotguns I wanted 30y ago cant bee selled to a young hunter now. A drilling 12g/222rem are not so popular then a hunters hunt wildboar, fallow and reddeer in the same hunt who used to be roedeer by barking dog only. Side by side shotguns 3/4 or full choke were used for hare hunting with running dog not so popular any more. New animals to hunt in last 30 years seal, wildboar, wolf, bear, lynx, roedeer(in my area) and fallow.
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
And I would not be surprised in the slightest if those that should know better were at said shoots.
Yet another set of hoops to jump through on the horizon.
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
I can’t help thinking that the future for British shooting won’t be large scale driven phaesant shooting, but will morph into large scale driven deer. The deer numbers are there. There are an increasing number of younger rifle shooters entering, less so shotgun shooters. It just needs an enterprising shoot or two to join the dots.
And driven deer shooting - most efficient way of producing the large culls wanted by Packham et al.
timbrayford
Well-Known Member
One of the issues being that steel shot was wounding but not killing outright, another plastic wads causing potential issues if consumed by cattle. The Scottish rules would have made far more sense but we are where we are now.
Wildfowlers are knocking down geese and ducks at silly heights with .410’s and 20 bores. The secret is the expensive but absolutely deadly TSS.
countrryboy
Well-Known Member
Exactly this if i was in W J etal id be doing exactly that plus making a big deal about single use plastic cartridge cases too.
Also a few studies on bismoth, tungsten and copper and any negarive effects they have on anything.
I would imagine they only have to make a claim about the safety to WHO and we're back to square 1 with WHO having to prove X is safe and to wot dose.
If even possible to prove it will not be cheap and costs will be passed on to shooters.
How long is it going to be until someone chips a tooth on a steel shot and sues?
Im still not 100% sure wot will happen if u have ingested steel shot and go throu an MRI scanner?
Will it pull the shot out of u from the inside?
Some say it could be an issue
Wot happens if somehow a sharp shard of copper makes its way into food chain.
Could it possibly damage the stomach or intestine linings?
The alnternatives are next best at best, their is absolutely no argument about them being inferrior.
Its just going to be a cibstant gri d of being attacked from all sides.
Look at in eng quite a few shoots cant release pheasants on some of their grounds.
Watch the distances sneak out or change to Sssi's too.
Every year the GLs are challenged, i can see it being the case that pigeons need to be in the crop their damaging, so roost shooting or on stubbles will be banned
Hell in scotland holyrood has been shafting shooters for decades now.
97% of airgun license consultation against it.
Recent snaring ban, muirburn, protrction of blue hares and licencing of grouse shoots. Scottish grouse moors must be almost unfeasable now.
And expect things to be tightened up in future.
And much off that legislation was AGAINST the reccomendations of their own paid for expert independant reports and working group findings.
U really couldnae make it up.
Driven deer can be made with a small team/syndicate of hunters it doesnt mean you need any enterprise too do it. 7 guys walking and 7 guys as shooters will work. Large scale driven pheasants are a very industrial way of shooting.
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
Agreed, but large scale driven deer with more shooters and beaters as large continental driven hunts would be much more to the 200 plus driven phaesant days.
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
Agreed, I use biodegradable wads where I can. It is one of frustrations of wildfowling that many of the wildfowling cartridges still use plastic wads. I would support legislation that insisted on wads being biodegradable. The technology is there, it’s just manufacturers deciding not use.
Conor O'Gorman
Well-Known Member
Tim, you have decided to use this thread to make several unprompted pops at BASC and me personally. If you moved from BASC to the NGO why would you focus your criticism of the voluntary transition away from lead shot for live quarry on BASC that both BASC and NGO have supported? Moreover, the NGO response to the December 2024 HSE recommendations to the government was: "Lead exposure poses serious risks to wildlife, domestic animals, and humans, particularly children. This move supports conservation and aligns with existing efforts across Europe". I don't recall any comments from you on that NGO response? Why is that so?
timbrayford
Well-Known Member
Not with plastic wads I hope?
timbrayford
Well-Known Member
Because you're merely looking for an argument and I'm not rising to the bait of course!
Norfolk Deer Search
Well-Known Member
The big solution to all this really is just leave the shooting organisations full stop, not one of them is worth a £1 of my cash that’s for sure.
It’s all political BS anyway, mindless drivel that’s been rolling on for far too many years.
Like I said, if everybody just stopped posting about it, do not highlight or be concerned about it and just carried on in your own way what’s gonna happen?
It’s all political BS anyway, mindless drivel that’s been rolling on for far too many years.
Like I said, if everybody just stopped posting about it, do not highlight or be concerned about it and just carried on in your own way what’s gonna happen?
The technology is suspect at best, most biodegradable wads need industrial composting the water soluble disappear quick but questionable about what remains, only the cardboard tube type have microorganisms in nature that eat them.
Some biodegradable wads will be in the environment a very long time but less than single use plastic, they have to work at high pressure and high temperature within the gun so it’s challenging.
Progress is being made mainly thanks to the packaging industry an industry worth billions more than shooting but still business are going back to cardboard and paper bags for packaging.
We as shooters and consumers should be given more information about the wads within each product.
this from one wad manufacturer type and just because the material is EN13432 does not mean the product made from it is.
The literature from xxxxx states as follows
" degrades at least 90% in 6 months when subjected to an environment rich in carbon dioxide"
"when in contact with organic materials for a period of 3 months, the mass of the material decomposes for 90% from fragments less than 2mm in size"
"The material is EN13432 certified"
However, the time frames are not applicable to the UK climate. It will take longer to degrade . What shooters have to realise is that to retain the performance and ballistics of a plastic wad the bio wad needs to be rigid/stable enough to suffer the pressure and heat when a cartridge is fired.
These wads will not degrade within weeks or a few months, they will degrade but there are many factors that determine the timeframe. Eg they will start to breakdown quicker in summer, they will breakdown quicker in the South West of the country compared to the north east / Scotland etc due to climate variation.
Also, we need the wads to have a good shelf life, so shooters can store them for a number of months without fear of the wad breaking down in storage. There must be some compromise. Even a fibre wad doesn't degrade within days/ weeks. It can remain for a while.
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
I have some so called bio wads in my front garden. They have been there since January. They could be reloaded as they are not composted one bit!
I think a lot of folk like their ears tickled!
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
The “anti brigade” have the upper hand at the moment. They are very media savvy. But ……
There is one hell of a lot of very good work done by the shooting community towards creating wild life rich habitats. Its that we are not very good at all at talking about it, promoting it etc. etc.
If people have a view on shooting its of “loads of money” group all turning up at the pub in their large Range Rover sports then boasting how many birds they have shot and how much they spend on shooting. I think we can all recognise such types.
What’s not recognised is the time and efforts put into creating habitats etc etc. the guys and girls are not in the pub - they are out in the woods doing the work.
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