lead ban, what calibre too chose?

Sol

Well-Known Member
For people using copper ammunition I'm curious too see what the most common calibre people are using? Ideally people shooting Reds and Sika since there usually noted as a little more tough (or muntjac, I supose!)
I will apply later this year and I'm still unsure what too put down as my initial calibres .22 / .222 Is given since Its still lead legal, but I'm questioning my larger calibre choice.

My initial thoughts are 308, or 270? I feel like 308 Is likely one of the better choices out of those two, or perhaps the 6.5 since the popularity for it is ever increasing?

Worth considering I'm a small women too, I feel like there's significantly less smaller-geared rifles in 270 than say 308, I dont really want too go over 8lbs with accessories.
 
Gun go bang, deer fall over.

If you feel like it get some expert tuition and it will open up what calibres you feel happy with.

If you like to reload or can get ammo, 6.5 prc will work well.

As will the tested and trusted 270.


I know a outfitter that’s laid literally thousands upon thousands of red and sika to rest with the 243 as well.

Go and shoot some on a range and see how you get on.
 
I have both a .270 & .308 (don't ask why). They are obviously both great for the job but you are right. .308 is the obvious choice of the two for you, purely down to ease of availability as you mention
 
It’s not the calibre, it’s the twist rate. So be careful with the .222, because despite remaining legal for lead, you might find no one brings in lead ammo or stocks the components you need. You might also find that due to the very small quantities of lead ammo that will be carried, it will become more expensive than non-toxic. Due to the difficulties of getting the .222 to perform with non-toxic, a subject I’ve discussed with the MD of Schultz Larsen, unless You have an old one you love, do consider the .223 or .22-250 instead. And, trust me, I love a .222!!!

As for going up from the .243 to handle non-toxic better for ‘tougher deer’. I’m all for it, shot bucket loads of stags with my .243’s, but past 150yds or even closer, even with good ammo, they lacked at times (not always), needing second or third shots to put a beast down. Not because of poor shot placement, just not enough oomph to create hydrostatic shock or quick bleed related shock and so on.
Some will argue it’s all about shot placement, it isn’t, it’s a lot about bullet design and construction, then speed at which it’s delivered, and then, placement. If you neck shoot, sure, even a tough old warrior or sika stag will drop with a short barreled .243 if hit in the right place, but stick one in the lungs from 275yds and have a block of commercial timber just within reach, good luck 🤞

Give really good consideration to what rifle you want, have it fitted to the right LOP, make sure your local shop has plenty of ongoing supply of ammunition that suits YOUR chosen and preferred shot placement, at a range YOU are comfortable with. And, in a twist rate that’s suitable for said round, not what the dealer has in stock, because a lot of stock is old now, even new rifles, and made for the lead ammo market.

I’d forget all about prc’s and magnums and wsm’s etc, and focus on a good solid calibre that feeds well, lots of ammo available, and doesn’t burn the barrel, nor requires a 26”
Barrel to get the best of it.

A 270 is wonderful, but wasted if chopped much shorter than 24”. Same with 7mm rem mag, waste of recoil, powder and pain.

A 6.5x55 in 20-22” would be my best recommendation, had it not been for the lack of good ammunition, loaded to perform. Now it’s really a handloaders round, unless you buy in bulk and have stock for a years stalking or more of course.

Or a good 7x57!

But if you like shorter barrels and reload, 7-08!!!!

But, alas, it’s back to commercially available ammo, as well as rifles actually made! So, we return to the 6.5cm and the 30-06 in my opinion.

If moderated, neither are a big deal, I’ve seen many boys and girls shoot the ‘06 without issues or fear.

But, it needs to be in a rifle that fits you, right LOP, and not 14.5” if you’re 5’6” tall!!!!!

Why am I not talking about the .308? I detest the .308. Small, short and stubby, ugly, underperforming IMHO, don’t like it..had several, all sold.
Just, not elegant. I’m, I’m being too harsh, it’s just not one I like really
My view. Sorry Pat 😂 don’t take it personally.

Go and try some rifles, find the one you like that has, or can have the right LOP, then check cals it’s available in, if it has the right twist rate or can be ordered for such. Commercially plentiful, so parts not an issue,
Good reputation for accuracy, and service. Buy from a dealer you have a good working relationship with.

Go try some rifles in a few different calibres,
Don’t pick based on what I, or others recommend. But, at least
Maybe there’s a couple of sensible ideas in the approx 5000 replies your about to get, all recommending the calibre the poster has themselves….and a few from people just wanting to moan about the lead ban

Why not just default to the 6.5cm? Because you might want to shoot boar, you might want to take a 30-06 to Africa, etc etc. it gives you more options without having to start the thinking process again.

I should buy another 30-06 really 😂
 
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If recoil is a concern the 6.5s would be a good port of call, Creedmoor and PRS both offer a huge selection of factory ammo.
Ive used my 6.5 CM successfully on lots of larger deer Sika and Red at various ranges, i got tbe 6.5 in preparation for non toxic after doing everything with .243
 
It’s not the calibre, it’s the twist rate. So be careful with the .222, because despite remaining legal for lead, you might find no one brings in lead ammo or stocks the components you need. You might also find that due to the very small quantities of lead ammo that will be carried, it will become more expensive than non-toxic. Due to the difficulties of getting the .222 to perform with non-toxic, a subject I’ve discussed with the MD of Schultz Larsen, unless You have an old one you love, do consider the .223 or .22-250 instead. And, trust me, I love a .222!!!
Really, I think you will find all the 224" will become more popular and pricing stay the current bad.
22-250 has the same twist as 222 by the way.
 
I've only recently picked up some lead free to try in my 6.5x55, and whilst have yet to take a deer using them, have friends who regularly take moose with lead free so it can't be so bad. It's softer on the shoulder than a 308 so you could go for a lighter rifle too without it being too lively. With lead, it's always done what it needed to on Roe and Red.

That said, I have just been granted a 308 slot too and part of the justification was future proofing for the lead ban.
 
Keep the 243, it will be fine. If you really want rid, creedmoor will be a good shout. Popular, easy to get ammo for and probably some of the cheaper ammo too.

Ignore honest John, he seems to forget that whilst we can't shoot animals when the ban comes in, there are still plenty of target shooters than can! There will still be plenty of lead ammo
 
For people using copper ammunition I'm curious too see what the most common calibre people are using? Ideally people shooting Reds and Sika since there usually noted as a little more tough (or muntjac, I supose!)
I will apply later this year and I'm still unsure what too put down as my initial calibres .22 / .222 Is given since Its still lead legal, but I'm questioning my larger calibre choice.

My initial thoughts are 308, or 270? I feel like 308 Is likely one of the better choices out of those two, or perhaps the 6.5 since the popularity for it is ever increasing?

Worth considering I'm a small women too, I feel like there's significantly less smaller-geared rifles in 270 than say 308, I dont really want too go over 8lbs with accessories.
My plan is to swap the .243 for a .223 for muntjac (if the blurb is correct) and switch to copper in the .270🤮
Can't help you with weight as I like the T8 on the .270 which makes it heavy, look as light weight mods and clip on by-pods in your savings plan.
🫤
 
For people using copper ammunition I'm curious too see what the most common calibre people are using? Ideally people shooting Reds and Sika since there usually noted as a little more tough (or muntjac, I supose!)
I will apply later this year and I'm still unsure what too put down as my initial calibres .22 / .222 Is given since Its still lead legal, but I'm questioning my larger calibre choice.

My initial thoughts are 308, or 270? I feel like 308 Is likely one of the better choices out of those two, or perhaps the 6.5 since the popularity for it is ever increasing?

Worth considering I'm a small women too, I feel like there's significantly less smaller-geared rifles in 270 than say 308, I dont really want too go over 8lbs with accessories.
id split the differnece and go 7-08 ive had one these last 15 years as well as .308
 
It’s not the calibre, it’s the twist rate. So be careful with the .222, because despite remaining legal for lead, you might find no one brings in lead ammo or stocks the components you need. You might also find that due to the very small quantities of lead ammo that will be carried, it will become more expensive than non-toxic. Due to the difficulties of getting the .222 to perform with non-toxic, a subject I’ve discussed with the MD of Schultz Larsen, unless You have an old one you love, do consider the .223 or .22-250 instead. And, trust me, I love a .222!!!

As for going up from the .243 to handle non-toxic better for ‘tougher deer’. I’m all for it, shot bucket loads of stags with my .243’s, but past 150yds or even closer, even with good ammo, they lacked at times (not always), needing second or third shots to put a beast down. Not because of poor shot placement, just not enough oomph to create hydrostatic shock or quick bleed related shock and so on.
Some will argue it’s all about shot placement, it isn’t, it’s a lot about bullet design and construction, then speed at which it’s delivered, and then, placement. If you neck shoot, sure, even a tough old warrior or sika stag will drop with a short barreled .243 if hit in the right place, but stick one in the lungs from 275yds and have a block of commercial timber just within reach, good luck 🤞

Give really good consideration to what rifle you want, have it fitted to the right LOP, make sure your local shop has plenty of ongoing supply of ammunition that suits YOUR chosen and preferred shot placement, at a range YOU are comfortable with. And, in a twist rate that’s suitable for said round, not what the dealer has in stock, because a lot of stock is old now, even new rifles, and made for the lead ammo market.

I’d forget all about prc’s and magnums and wsm’s etc, and focus on a good solid calibre that feeds well, lots of ammo available, and doesn’t burn the barrel, nor requires a 26”
Barrel to get the best of it.

A 270 is wonderful, but wasted if chopped much shorter than 24”. Same with 7mm rem mag, waste of recoil, powder and pain.

A 6.5x55 in 20-22” would be my best recommendation, had it not been for the lack of good ammunition, loaded to perform. Now it’s really a handloaders round, unless you buy in bulk and have stock for a years stalking or more of course.

Or a good 7x57!

But if you like shorter barrels and reload, 7-08!!!!

But, alas, it’s back to commercially available ammo, as well as rifles actually made! So, we return to the 6.5cm and the 30-06 in my opinion.

If moderated, neither are a big deal, I’ve seen many boys and girls shoot the ‘06 without issues or fear.

But, it needs to be in a rifle that fits you, right LOP, and not 14.5” if you’re 5’6” tall!!!!!

Why am I not talking about the .308? I detest the .308. Small, short and stubby, ugly, underperforming IMHO, don’t like it..had several, all sold.
Just, not elegant. I’m, I’m being too harsh, it’s just not one I like really
My view. Sorry Pat 😂 don’t take it personally.

Go and try some rifles, find the one you like that has, or can have the right LOP, then check cals it’s available in, if it has the right twist rate or can be ordered for such. Commercially plentiful, so parts not an issue,
Good reputation for accuracy, and service. Buy from a dealer you have a good working relationship with.

Go try some rifles in a few different calibres,
Don’t pick based on what I, or others recommend. But, at least
Maybe there’s a couple of sensible ideas in the approx 5000 replies your about to get, all recommending the calibre the poster has themselves….and a few from people just wanting to moan about the lead ban
HonestJones That's by far the best (and "Honest" ) answer I could ever expect & I totally agree. Mee too I got reed from all' my .308 rifles (well except a semi-auto browning bar sitting unused in the safe just for Tuscany boars driven hunt which do not apply anymore..) although is a caliber that perform well with copper too. Speaking of calibers I have direct experience within your's list:
6.5x55 unbeatable sweet shooter especially for a light woman. easy reloading ad well performer up to 300 mt. But she will need to live test a lot of ammos before finding the one that will drop a red drt. Probably a lighter bullet in110/120 grain range better than the classic 140. I did loose myself 3 roes perfectly heart and lungs shooted but pencil-nailed from a faulty design cooper bullet.
.270 my all to go caliber but I am still stick reloading with 130 lead bullets and read mixed experiences on the passage to cooper. When I will be forced to solids will start with lower grains bullet too.
7x57 (R in my rifle) the perfect ole school rifle. It seem to shot reliably whatever ammo you drop in and is very very sweet on the shoulder. A kipplauf with a max 50 mm front lens scope is a real joy to drag around and has been proven to shut off any beast in Europe and far.
I'd like to add my 2 cents to Your's list:
6xc Tubb. still experimenting with it but cause can shot heavier rounds than his cousin.243 with less powder and more effectiveness it may be worth a thought on it.
 
For people using copper ammunition I'm curious too see what the most common calibre people are using? Ideally people shooting Reds and Sika since there usually noted as a little more tough (or muntjac, I supose!)
I will apply later this year and I'm still unsure what too put down as my initial calibres .22 / .222 Is given since Its still lead legal, but I'm questioning my larger calibre choice.

My initial thoughts are 308, or 270? I feel like 308 Is likely one of the better choices out of those two, or perhaps the 6.5 since the popularity for it is ever increasing?

Worth considering I'm a small women too, I feel like there's significantly less smaller-geared rifles in 270 than say 308, I dont really want too go over 8lbs with accessories.
Of advancing years, I’ve been lightening my stalking kit progressively and a while back I decided to treat myself to a lightweight .270 as that calibre just seemed to deliver better effects on fallow at modest long range. I looked high and low from £5k rifles down to the humble Tikka T3X which, in its T3X lite guise that was amongst the lowest weight. Now, lightweight and .270 don’t necessarily sit well in recoil terms but as some of the thermal clip-on shots show on here I don’t loose sight picture. It’s the lightest weight rifle in my cabinet and it’s a pleasure to stalk with. I have 2 “lites”, the other is a .308 Wideland Veil now sitting in a MDT HNT26 chassis but the .270 lite is lighter! Just to confuse matters, the .270 is now in the Wideland stock as I’d fitted a cheek riser to it.

Don’t be in too a fast rush to ditch your .243 any time either, as mine (shooting 80gr copper from its 20” shortened barrel) will soon come out of the cupboard for roe/muntjac when the bigger deer go out of season in preference to my .270 and .308s.

IMG_0222.webpIMG_0223.webp

Edit: All of my rifles have 20” barrels (including the .243) and I have only now shot copper (TTSX) for the last 7 years without issues :thumb:
 
I don't understand this notion that a 308 recoils bad.
It doesn't!
They are snappy and muzzle flip when people have the wonderful idea of cutting them to 16”.

It’s like reading some US forums, “two seasons ago I drew an elk tag and shot it with a 300wm and xyz bullet, it took three shots to put down, absolutely terrible bullet, I don’t recommend it. First shot was a touch far back and at 650yds”
 
I don't understand this notion that a 308 recoils bad.
It doesn't!
I don't understand the notion that a .270 recoils bad.
It doesn't. About the same as .308
But hey, everyone has their little prejudices.

@Sol, don't give up on the .243 if you're happy with it and comfortable using it. I have witnessed some good performance from non-toxic rounds in that calibre recently, on some fairly hefty fallow.

Here's a copper .243 bullet that I recovered from just under the skin on the "exit" side of a fallow, after a quartering shot.
It's mushroomed very well, not lost any mass, and hasn't pencilled straight through (as some shooters claim they do).

1000012197.webp
 
It’s really quite funny i read all these replies, and for what Sol requires it is the 6.5 CREEDMOOR . It’s the obvious are you all so insecure as to not say the obvious.
Low recoil means a lighter rifle to carry. Good sight picture. Excellent long range capability. Perfectly designed in a non toxic world.
 
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