Lead in petrol is not, and never was, in the same form as two hundred and seventy round balls of #6 shot and lead in paint also was not, and never was in the form of two hundred and seventy round balls of of #6 shot either.
Lead shot on pheasant days?
- Thread starter Pedro
- Start date
Lead in petrol is not, and never was, in the same form as two hundred and seventy round balls of #6 shot and lead in paint also was not, and never was in the form of two hundred and seventy round balls of of #6 shot either.
The lead shot issue is (bull shot) it's all about the banning of blood sports but the the instigaters have not got the gonads to admit this, people imposein there will on other people because they can is not nice, I seem to recall a man in Europe 1940s that did this, my father had to put on a uniform!
Mine, as I am sure you father did, saw it coming. He was already, as were many volunteers, already in uniform in the Territorial Army in 1938.
Pine Marten
Well-Known Member
I know I'm cruising for a bruising here, but is there any issue that won't lead to WW2 references? Because really, this has sod all to do with it. (And now it shall be explained to me why it does....)
Pine Marten
Well-Known Member
Sort of the British-specific version of it perhaps... But I think maybe I shall now make a strategic withdrawal.
Steel shot can never be the equal of lead shot, the end, as it will be for small gauge guns and non superior HP proofed guns unless you can afford to shoot the alternative non toxic shot to steel like bismuth.
Steel shot damages guns, just google it, to the best of my knowledge is not the majority of wild fowling with modern steel HP proofed guns? and Wild fowlers also do not shoot many cartridges in an outing or even a season.
It will be interesting to see what claims for damage result if the use of steel shot in game shooting increases significantly and suggesting it is ok to use a non steel proofed gun with standard steel shot cartridges may lead to a legal battle especially if somebody is seriously injured.
Was their not a court case in America when 7.62nato surplus ammo was used in a .308win and an accident occurred at the court case the gun manufacture quoted that the rifle was marked chambered for .308win and not 7.62 hence was unsuitable ammunition for the rifle and the judge awarded significant damages as they do in America.
So how can you defend using a type of shot the gun was never designed for or proofed for?
Steel shot damages guns, just google it, to the best of my knowledge is not the majority of wild fowling with modern steel HP proofed guns? and Wild fowlers also do not shoot many cartridges in an outing or even a season.
It will be interesting to see what claims for damage result if the use of steel shot in game shooting increases significantly and suggesting it is ok to use a non steel proofed gun with standard steel shot cartridges may lead to a legal battle especially if somebody is seriously injured.
Was their not a court case in America when 7.62nato surplus ammo was used in a .308win and an accident occurred at the court case the gun manufacture quoted that the rifle was marked chambered for .308win and not 7.62 hence was unsuitable ammunition for the rifle and the judge awarded significant damages as they do in America.
So how can you defend using a type of shot the gun was never designed for or proofed for?
Pine Marten
Well-Known Member
Is this any different from moving to cars with unleaded petrol and indeed no petrol? Or from gas lighting to electricity? Or VHS to DVD? At some point, technology and science moves on, stuff becomes obsolete. Shotguns have had a really good run...
Don’t think moving from lead to steel shot is technology or science moving on, if by on you mean forward more like backwards, given steel shot is a poor substitute to lead shot.
I bet if you took the whole life cycle into consideration lead shot is more environmentally friendly, uses less energy to extract the metal from the ground and to manufacture the shot so less green house pollution and is worth recycling as has been done at several clay grounds.
Some people are born to disagree
and that is thatI hadn't previously been aware that the introduction of unleaded petrol was pushed by people who wanted to end the private ownership of cars, that Edison et al wanted everyone to live in the dark, that DVDs were invented by people who detested TV etc. etc.
More seriously, in all the cases they generally represented an improvement in function rather than a decline. Of this was a case of technology moving on then, yes, I agree with you.....let's shoot with lasers.
The fact is that there is no way private individuals will ever be permitted to own a more modern form of firearm than we do now, so I think you have a totally false argument.
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
I quite agree that lead shot itself is quite harmless. Pure lead in any form is quite harmless, and it quickly forms a skin of oxide when exposed to air that prevents further corrosion.
But that is not what happens when a pellet is eaten. Stomach acid is a string acid. Drop a peice of lead into acid and it starts to dissolve and form lead compounds that are then absorbed along with all the other nutrients from your food.
And because of the mechanical action of your stomach the pellet is constantly being tumbled, so any Oxide layer is constantly being scrubbed off.
But of course you would never knowingly eat a lead pellet - but what about all that lead shot meat. If you cut away the shot meat on a phaesant or a duck you don’t have a lot left.
And what all that game that is going To the dealer and then into the foodchain?
We used to use lead paint, cigarrettes were advertised as good for you and plastics where the new wonder material. But knowledge and learning moves on, and so does technology.
High velocity steel cartridges do exist, and new brands are being developed all the time.
Yes Morris A, Model T Fords, 4 1/2 litre Bently’s etc are wonderful to drive and have, but if you want to do 500 miles on a motorway a modern car is do much better. Yes there is a place for my 100 year old Alex Martin. And frankly if I was able to afford several thousand for driven phaesant shooting then a bit more for Bismuth cartridges won’t stop me.
More likely I will use it on smaller walked up shoots as I currently do and put 50 cartridges a year through it.
For my wildfowling, I use a three inch chambered steel shot proofed semi auto and it works very well.
Magnificent 7
Well-Known Member
No good for proper pheasants
I'm not entirely ignorant on the topic. Gastric acid is of too low a concentration (no more than 0.2M), and the time for which food stays in the stomach too short for very much reaction to occur. The acid first has to digest the surrounding food, unless we are to hypothesise that the consumer is going to eat lead pellets on their own deliberately. The surrounding meat is obviously largely made up of amino acids which are amphoteric and serve to partially neutralise the acid. This will have the effect of shortening the time of exposure and increasing the pH. Despite this countervailing factors, some lead / lead oxide will react with the acid, and the principal product is lead chloride. Lead chloride is only sparingly soluble in dilute hydrochloric acid and insoluble in water. This severely limits the possibility of the body absorbing a high dose. Once the stomach contents pass into the duodenum, the acid is neatralised, so the small amount of dissolved lead choloride will tend to precipitate out of solution again.
In the human digestive system, eating lead, while obviously best avoided is not that big a deal. It's not really helpful to confuse the effects of ingestion between humans and animals with radically different digestive systems - which are able to absorb high doses of lead. This is why I picked up on what appeared to be an explanation that while true for some avian species is really quite misleading for humans.
The risks of eating lead-contaminated food largely derive from preparing it with organic acids such as found in vinegar and fruits - this is why you shouldn't cook game in such recipes.
Freeforester
Well-Known Member
I can assure you that given the choice, it's much nicer to do the miles in the Bentley..
Theres a hell of a lot of hair spliting on this subject, we are talking one yes one lead shot every blue moon if you're unlucky and I am sure they come out intact, can we now consider the real reason behind all this, anti blood sports, and stop trying to compromise with these people
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