Licensing query

[Wilkesy]

Hi guys,
I recently did my first guided stalk, and absolutely loved it! I can’t wait to get back out and do it again!
My reason for posting is that I am in the beginning stages of applying for my shotgun licence for clays ect, I have just received my medical form back from the doctor and the plan was to send of for my shotgun licence for sporting uses. However I am thinking would it be worth while to apply for both shotgun and firearm in one go? I was thinking a .270 as I have read up on here that they are a great all round caliber! Or would this just get dismissed by the police straight away.
Would really appreciate some advice on this!
Thanks in advance,
Dan

 

[Herb64]

Go for a coterminous application as it will save you both time, hassle and expense in the long run. As to wether you’d be granted a .270 on your initial application that’s a different kettle of fish

 

[rookyshot]

A lot comes down to your local police authority and I don’t have any experience of Gloucester. Where I am based you need to prove competence via two references from experienced FAC holders that can vouch for your ability to safely handle and shoot a rifle and you then need to prove good reason for owning a rifle, by way of either having your own land with deer on it or having established a history of stalking via paid or invited stalks along with plans to continue stalking.

I have my own land holding deer so didn’t need to show history of paid stalks but the guidance I was given was the FEO would be looking for evidence of 8-10 stalks, which could include some blanks.

As you’ll quickly find out, it appears that each of our police authorities have a different set of interpretations of licencing so my experiences could easily differ to yours. My recommendation would be to just put in for your shotgun certificate and as part of this application establish a relationship with your FEO and get a clear understanding from them on the process and expectations of your local Police force. You will probably find this will give you a much smoother journey to getting an FAC as you’ll have clear guidance on exactly what your local authority is looking for.

I hope this helps and very best of luck in your application.

 

[VSS]

Yes, apply for both at the same time, and yes, 270 is a great calibre.

 

[Wilkesy]

Thank you for the advice, it’s much appreciated! I am very new to all this so just trying to get my head around it! Still got lots to learn! But hopefully I’ll be able to get it all down, get my licence and get out doing some stalking on my own in the future!

 

[Wilkesy]

A lot comes down to your local police authority and I don’t have any experience of Gloucester. Where I am based you need to prove competence via two references from experienced FAC holders that can vouch for your ability to safely handle and shoot a rifle and you then need to prove good reason for owning a rifle, by way of either having your own land with deer on it or having established a history of stalking via paid or invited stalks along with plans to continue stalking.

I have my own land holding deer so didn’t need to show history of paid stalks but the guidance I was given was the FEO would be looking for evidence of 8-10 stalks, which could include some blanks.

As you’ll quickly find out, it appears that each of our police authorities have a different set of interpretations of licencing so my experiences could easily differ to yours. My recommendation would be to just put in for your shotgun certificate and as part of this application establish a relationship with your FEO and get a clear understanding from them on the process and expectations of your local Police force. You will probably find this will give you a much smoother journey to getting an FAC as you’ll have clear guidance on exactly what your local authority is looking for.

I hope this helps and very best of luck in your application.

Wow 10 paid stalks is a lot more than I was expecting but I suppose they want to make sure you know what you’re doing! I might have to try make some new friends with some land and get some permissions to speed up the process a bit haha!

 

[timbrayford]

Wow 10 paid stalks is a lot more than I was expecting but I suppose they want to make sure you know what you’re doing! I might have to try make some new friends with some land and get some permissions to speed up the process a bit haha!

If you can get some range experience at a rifle club it can help too

 

[tikkathreebarrels]

Wow 10 paid stalks is a lot more than I was expecting but I suppose they want to make sure you know what you’re doing! I might have to try make some new friends with some land and get some permissions to speed up the process a bit haha!

The thing not to do with Firearms Licensing is to get into anything that they could interpret as you being argumentative/not calm and measured.

Unlike shotguns with a firearm you have to demonstrate good reason for wanting a particular "thing". I don't think that evidence of ten stalks is set down in the law or regulations so it's one force's determinant of how serious you are in your intentions. Talk to your own FLA and ask them what evidence they'd expect to see put forward by a new applicant.

I think the question of "suitable calibre" is now slightly up in the air to your advantage because of the likely future transition to no lead ammunition which (and I'm being brief here) could lead to the need to use larger calibres than might have been necessary with lead ammunition. You could find yourself in a position of being granted a firearms licence just before any mandatory change to non-lead and it would be unreasonable for the firearms licencing to put you in a position of having to change up calibre in a short timescale. If you're likely to have opportunity to stalk large deer you need a suitable calibre. (Or you can be like many of us and have one rifle for this and another rifle for that)

You will of course require a moderator on this rifle for hearing protection and to reduce "noise pollution in the countryside".

 

[Tex]

Tikka has some great points there, pay them good attention whilst you go for the FAC

The thing not to do with Firearms Licensing is to get into anything that they could interpret as you being argumentative/not calm and measured.

This is golden advice - never seem in a rush, never seem hot headed. It's just not befitting of someone the police would want to take the liability of issuing an FAC. It's all about liability. See what happened after Plymouth shooting - all fingers pointed at the local constabulary (rightly or wrongly, I don't mean to imply either). The police are lumped with fulfilling our right to firearms ownership (as define by home office) but with no real reward for it, just a massive risk of getting the blame if it goes wrong, so they will always be looking for reasons to reduce their liability by taking minimum risks (number of license holders, number of firearms, capability (caliber) of those firearms) to uphold our rights.

You will of course require a moderator on this rifle for hearing protection and to reduce "noise pollution in the countryside".

This is a good one, but doesn't carry a lot of legal (read: liability) weight. The golden reason for a moderator that's never failed us before is the presence of livestock
If old lady Jones makes a noise complaint and the local constabulary had previously refused a moderator, she's not likely to drag the constabulary into a serious legal battle between the shooter and herself or anyone else
But... If farmer Jones end up euthanizing his prize stud bull (one just sold here for £184,000) because it got wrapped in a fence and drowned in the ditch... you get my point
Ewes can lose their lambs (£135-300 a head a market) from a fright..
Where I shot as a kid had neighboring fields with race horses (circa £20-30k a piece with ankles i could swear were only as strong as champaign flutes) at one end of the land and a riding school with little 10 year olds having rising lessons in front of their rich and well connected parents.. god forbid one of them fell from a horse due to a gunshot
I've never once had an FEO even so much as hint at questioning a moderator to protect livestock

Good luck with the application! Be patient

 

[Wilkesy]

Wow thank you so much you guys! I really appreciate you all taking the time to share your knowledge with me! I had completely forgotten about a moderator so that’s a really good shout! I was speaking to my local gun dealer at the weekend and he said that here in Gloucester they really value the DSC1 (in fact his words were don’t even bother applying without having done the DSC1). This is something I was planning on doing anyway so there’s no issue there but are they all 3 day courses or are there some that you can do in a day?

 

[cjm1066]

Having a few stalks booked, even for next winter or summer 2023 shows good reason and why not book a DMQ1 at the seame time. You may well get limited to approved land but that is no hassel at you stage of your stalking career and is free to remove.

 

[Woodsmoke]

ONE booked stalk is sufficient to justify your request for a stalking rifle. Not ten, twenty, or the bequest of your firstborn to the FEO. If you can demonstrate good reason, they have to justify why they've failed to follow the HOG. Submit your application, stick to your guns (quite literally), and if they baulk ask for their reasons to be be put in writing.

 

[Stalker62]

This is golden advice - never seem in a rush, never seem hot headed.

Good luck with the application! Be patient

Wow thank you but are they all 3 day courses or are there some that you can do in a day?

 

[Wilkesy]

Haha I see this irony of this, it wasn’t so much a question patience more a question of having to take time off work and stay away for 3 days to do the course! It’s quite expensive as it is, let alone paying for a hotel on top!

 

[Woodsmoke]

Haha I see this irony of this, it wasn’t so much a question patience more a question of having to take time off work and stay away for 3 days to do the course! It’s quite expensive as it is, let alone paying for a hotel on top!

This is where some experience will pay you dividends. A few accompanied stalks, with some good advice and tips from your guide will be invaluable. If time really is an issue, you can sit DSC assessment-only. You'll need to attend the shooting test of course, but you don't necessarily need to take the training days. It's a fair bit cheaper that way, but you really do need a bit of experience, and it takes a lot of reading. The training materials will teach you all the theory you need. Bear in mind though, useful as it is, the DSC is no substitute for experience. Good luck with it though, whichever road you head down

 

[25 Sharps]

A lot comes down to your local police authority and I don’t have any experience of Gloucester. Where I am based you need to prove competence via two references from experienced FAC holders that can vouch for your ability to safely handle and shoot a rifle and you then need to prove good reason for owning a rifle, by way of either having your own land with deer on it or having established a history of stalking via paid or invited stalks along with plans to continue stalking.

I have my own land holding deer so didn’t need to show history of paid stalks but the guidance I was given was the FEO would be looking for evidence of 8-10 stalks, which could include some blanks.

As you’ll quickly find out, it appears that each of our police authorities have a different set of interpretations of licencing so my experiences could easily differ to yours. My recommendation would be to just put in for your shotgun certificate and as part of this application establish a relationship with your FEO and get a clear understanding from them on the process and expectations of your local Police force. You will probably find this will give you a much smoother journey to getting an FAC as you’ll have clear guidance on exactly what your local authority is looking for.

I hope this helps and very best of luck in your application.

Your FEO and department are making it up as they go along.

If someone is planning on FAC and SGC then applying for SGC alone to ‘test the waters,’ so to speak, is not great advice.

Coterminous is the way to go and if the applicant can provide good reason, 2 referees and has no medical issues excluding them then a certificate should be issued, according to the law.

 

[Wilkesy]

Your FEO and department are making it up as they go along.

If someone is planning on FAC and SGC then applying for SGC alone to ‘test the waters,’ so to speak, is not great advice.

Coterminous is the way to go and if the applicant can provide good reason, 2 referees and has no medical issues excluding them then a certificate should be issued, according to the law.

So this was an old thread but ill summarize what has happened since.

After about a year of waiting I heard back from the police and they denied my FAC request for a .243 (for paid stalking and some fox control on land I have perms for) and a .22 (for pest control on the same land -mainly rabbits- and target shooting at the gun club i'm part of).

On the grounds that I did not have enough experience with either caliber.
They said I would need evidence of at least 5 successful stalks ideally with a .243 as that's what I'd requested, and some booked stalking or written permission for land to use it on. I asked if doing the DSC would help and they said it looks good but near enough irrelevant in terms of getting FAC.
For the .22 they requested that I again show proven experience with the caliber IE getting mentored at my gun club then getting them to write me a letter to show my competency. It seemed that my justification of pest control was not enough to warrant getting a .22 on its own.

They followed this all up by saying that I could however have a shotgun but as I had applied for a coterminous ticket I would have to re-apply for just a shotgun ticket. I asked if they could just change it on their end to a shotgun ticket as I had already waited so long to hear back and re-applying would result in another long wait. However the answer was no, so I had to re-apply for a shotgun ticket.

And now, a year and a half later from my initial application, I am still ticket-less and waiting to hear back.

 

[Pedro]

So this was an old thread but ill summarize what has happened since.

After about a year of waiting I heard back from the police and they denied my FAC request for a .243 (for paid stalking and some fox control on land I have perms for) and a .22 (for pest control on the same land -mainly rabbits- and target shooting at the gun club i'm part of).

On the grounds that I did not have enough experience with either caliber.
They said I would need evidence of at least 5 successful stalks ideally with a .243 as that's what I'd requested, and some booked stalking or written permission for land to use it on. I asked if doing the DSC would help and they said it looks good but near enough irrelevant in terms of getting FAC.
For the .22 they requested that I again show proven experience with the caliber IE getting mentored at my gun club then getting them to write me a letter to show my competency. It seemed that my justification of pest control was not enough to warrant getting a .22 on its own.

They followed this all up by saying that I could however have a shotgun but as I had applied for a coterminous ticket I would have to re-apply for just a shotgun ticket. I asked if they could just change it on their end to a shotgun ticket as I had already waited so long to hear back and re-applying would result in another long wait. However the answer was no, so I had to re-apply for a shotgun ticket.

And now, a year and a half later from my initial application, I am still ticket-less and waiting to hear back.

You'd be forgiven for thinking they are just putting hurdles in the way of granting licenses.

 

[Wilkesy]

It certainly would come across that way wouldn't it!

But I'm not letting it bother me and I'm just cracking on with what they've asked. Getting some paid stalks done. Getting some more experience. And trying (albeit unsuccessfully) to get more permissions.

 

[25 Sharps]

It certainly would come across that way wouldn't it!

But I'm not letting it bother me and I'm just cracking on with what they've asked. Getting some paid stalks done. Getting some more experience. And trying (albeit unsuccessfully) to get more permissions.

They have to confident you have sufficient experience with the type of firearm you have applied for. If you have zero experience they can request that you get some.

But it does sound terribly like they are putting obstacles in your way and making it up as you go along! 5 successful stalks is completely arbitrary, when I mentored someone no limit was placed on it and I signed him off after 3.

The whole permission thing is a chicken and egg, no guns makes it harder to get ground and vice versa.

Best of luck with it all!