Long vs Short actions?

[wildfowler.250]

So there seems to be nothing between the swede and Creed. Both seems to have reasonable amounts of factory ammo now. Hunting/deer stalking ranges will be similar anyway and trajectory probably won’t make any difference inside a few of hundred yards. So is there much benefit of having a short action? More pleasant to use? Only use a .270/.22-250 and had a couple of brief goes with a 6.5x55. Seems to be the only real difference between them?

 

[User00040]

I think most of it comes down to the rifle you want.

Eg: Tikka CTR's are short action calibers only due to the magazine, Howa's and 700's come in several different action lengths hence different stocks.

Did a little research on most of the 30 cal based calibers and shot a few of them before filling in the FAC form.

From what I gathered from others, most of the factory 6.5x55 ammo is loaded light as there is supposedly a difference between US and European 6.5x55 SAAMI specs (don't quote me on this).

A lot of the 6.5 creed 'extra accuracy' claims come from the PRS/Benchrest world which is a million miles away from stalking in terms of distances shot (1000 yards vs +/- 100 yards) and kit used (rear bags etc).

Even a .22lr is 'accurate enough' at 100 odd yards and was the old poacher's first choice! How far do you plan on shooting?

The 6.5 craze might wax and wane, but the .308 and .270 will always be available off the shelf so I went with .308 and .270 in the end.

 

[Klenchblaize]

I don't fully understand the Op's question but for sure the shorter action will exhibit a little more rigidity but it's doubtful the actress will notice.

K

 

[takbok]

It's all academic. About 1/2" is the difference between 'short' and 'long' actions. Choose what you want and enjoy.

 

[stephentri]

Long action has the advantage of seating bullets long , a .260 built on a short action is losing out in the fact that a bullet like a 140 grain eldm seated to magazine length takes up powder capacity,built on a long action you can get the full potential out of the cartridge.

 

[75]

I went from short action sako 75 to long action (custom) and didn’t notice a bit of difference.

 

[ejg]

I seem to notice a big difference between racking in a 300wm from my long action rem custom compared to my 308 short action remmy. Then again my T3 with 6,5 CM that I opened to long action bolt throw because of the aics mag system seems similar to my 308 remmy or my 6.5CM remmy. Maybe the size, shape and weight of the cartridge is also a factor.
edi

 

[enfieldspares]

Long cartridge = long action. Short cartridge = short action. There's no point in having a bolt over long for the cartridge. All it does is add extra time to the process of ejecting the fired cartridge and loading a fresh cartridge. And at the cost of extra weight in the bolt and extra weight in the action and the stock where it clothes the action. In theory the shorter the action the stiffer it is and that's better. Similar argument for front vs rear locking lugs. In practical terms for us as stalkers it makes little difference and IMHO you better assessing the rifle on its OVERALL fitness for what you want to do rather than it's being either a long action or a short action despite that nagging voice at the back of your head suggesting that a .243 Winchester or .308 Winchester doesn't feed as well as 6mm Remington or .30-06 in a rifle based on a Mauser 98 action.

 

[ejg]

Yes might be right with bolt travel, however some long actions are stiffer and lighter than some short actions. I have an old 98 Mauser in 308 fed from AICS mag, it is one of the smoothest feeding rifles I have ever used.
edi

 

[HDShark]

As far as I'm concerned the question should come down to barrel length. Generally if you want a nice short barrel then it makes no sense to me why you'd choose a long action cartridge which can't burn all of it's powder. Always laugh at the .270 boys who bang on about their 20" Tikka being a "beast" or a "man's calibre", when actually it's throwing flames out of the end and shooting a 130g bullet slower than my short barreled .308 is chucking a 150 grainer.

 

[big ears]

Had both, have both. Never noticed a difference. It’s all in the mind. Go and pick up the rifle and if you like it but it.

 

[wildfowler.250]

Cheers gents. Clearly nothing in it from how the gun handles. Thanks!

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

No one ever missed a shot either the first time or the second time because of the length of the throw of the bolt.....

Any 6.5 built on a short action is a waste of potential.
The weight saving is negligible
The loss of ability to load the extremely long and high BC 140gr+ is not

 

[User00003]

Long cartridge = long action. Short cartridge = short action. There's no point in having a bolt over long for the cartridge. All it does is add extra time to the process of ejecting the fired cartridge and loading a fresh cartridge. And at the cost of extra weight in the bolt and extra weight in the action and the stock where it clothes the action. In theory the shorter the action the stiffer it is and that's better. Similar argument for front vs rear locking lugs. In practical terms for us as stalkers it makes little difference and IMHO you better assessing the rifle on its OVERALL fitness for what you want to do rather than it's being either a long action or a short action despite that nagging voice at the back of your head suggesting that a .243 Winchester or .308 Winchester doesn't feed as well as 6mm Remington or .30-06 in a rifle based on a Mauser 98 action.

The feeding of a Mauser 98 is based on how well the smith polished and shaped the feed ramp and lips as well as picking a follower suitable and adjusting the extractor claw. If done well, a Mauser 98 will feed most standard cartridges very smoothly and swiftly without any failures in case pickup or extraction.

 

[wildfowler.250]

No one ever missed a shot either the first time or the second time because of the length of the throw of the bolt.....

Any 6.5 built on a short action is a waste of potential.
The weight saving is negligible
The loss of ability to load the extremely long and high BC 140gr+ is not

Thanks! I thought all factory Creedmoor were built on short actions though?

 

[User00033]

Indeed they are @wildfowler.250.

And I reckon Messrs DeMille and Emery had a pretty good idea of what they were doing, probably more so than the average bloke...

An interesting comparison to make when looking at short vs long, is the Creedmoor vs the .270, and a 130gr bullet. For a half-decent reloader, in standard SAAMI spec there's only about ~150fps in it, in favour of the .270, around 5%. But to achieve that, the .270 must burn roughly 20-25% more powder. Plus, its throwing a bullet with a BC somewhere in the order of 0.40 - 0.45, whereas the Creedmoor bullet is likely to be 0.5-0.6+.

It's a no-brainer for the average deer hunter. Give the 270 Winchester it's dues, its a classic. But classics are usually defined in terms that try not to emphasise the fact they are old, outdated and inefficient. And in this case bloody loud and shouty and with general bad manners. No deer is ever going to know the difference between a 130 grain hunting bullet thrown from a .270 Winchester or a 6.5 Creedmoor.

It's a double no-brainer if you are shooting past 300 m.

Long actions are... passé.

 

[stubear]

Also depends on the rifle you buy - A lot of the switch barrel rifles are designed to support all sorts of chamberings, so if you buy one of these you might find its a long action style action just with a restricted length magazine and bolt face to support the shorter case.

I know S&L are like this with the Classic and the Victory. The action is designed to support long magnum cartridges and all that changes with say a 6.5x47 is the magazine length and bolt face. I'm also pretty sure Sauer and Blaser are the same with their switch barrel models.

In honesty I dont think it makes any difference TBH - I've had a S&L in .308 and now own two in .25-06 and .300WM. Cant say I've noticed any difference in the bolt throw and the main difference is that the .308 was a 22" barrel whilst the new ones are 24" and 26" respectively, so are a bit heavier. Other than that they're rifles that go bang and kill deer.

The main benefit of .270 over the creed from what I've seen is ammo availability. If you're in rural Scotland, run out of ammo and go to the local gun shop then I would put money on them having .270 in stock. Creed though? Not so much.

 

[wildfowler.250]

Cheers for all the info. I’m not chucking the .270 but needing another ‘spare’ deer legal rifle. Don’t really fancy a .243 so a 6.5 seems a sensible do it all option

 

[Kalahari]

I sort of stay away from these arguments after being told that short fat cartridges were the way to go for efficiency and being able to use a short action and then the guy got out his tikka t3 in 243! Seems just a reason to raise dust.

David.

 

[Lateral]

I have a Blaser R8, with .223, to 300wm barrels, the action is longer than a long thing, but for stalking, it matters not one jot.

For driven boar, I generally use a Merkel Helix, in 9.3x62, and occasionally the R8 in 300wm, but I also have a 9.3x62 barrel for it too. It's only during driven hunting, where if I'm lucky, I'll be taking multiple shots, I really notice the difference, where I'm cycling, as fast, and as smoothly as possible. Here, the short action Helix, regardless of calibre, is noticeably faster.