Wolverine
Well-Known Member
Was nice talking to you yesterday evening,at end of phone whenever is required and as said willing to come and find the animal,animal definitely dead.
Look forward to meeting.
All the best
George
Lost roe Buck? Advice please
- Thread starter marriottpckh
- Start date
Look forward to meeting.
All the best
George
Cootmeurer
Well-Known Member
First off - I have recovered only 1 roe, but I have had quite bit of experience recovering whitetails.
Most of the advice I have seen is very good and would work for any deer. One additional piece I would add would be to carry flagging and flag the blood spots. Then you can look at the trail both coming and going and get a general sense of travel in relation to terrain. The other piece I would add would be to always stop and look backwards, sometimes even stepping off a ways. The light underbelly of roe is much like a whitetail, and I have often found the dead deer by finding the belly. Maybe it is just me, but rarely have I seen them die in such a position that the belly is facing the direction from whence they came.
Most of the advice I have seen is very good and would work for any deer. One additional piece I would add would be to carry flagging and flag the blood spots. Then you can look at the trail both coming and going and get a general sense of travel in relation to terrain. The other piece I would add would be to always stop and look backwards, sometimes even stepping off a ways. The light underbelly of roe is much like a whitetail, and I have often found the dead deer by finding the belly. Maybe it is just me, but rarely have I seen them die in such a position that the belly is facing the direction from whence they came.
marriottpckh
Member
Many, many thanks to all for a torrent of seriously good advice. Sorry for late response.
The 'changing direction' of roe is not something I'd properly considered but will in future - if I haven't asked (very kindly) 'Wolverine'/George and UKSHA (on this forum) to work his dogs first!
I use a .308, sako gamehead bullet, soft point and 123g. They seem incredibly accurate and, up to now, have knocked down everything I've hit. I know .308 is quite big for roe but I wanted something with reasonable surety for red. As an aside, when the army went for 5.56 instead of 7.62 (not a decision I was not involved in), we sacrificed a lot. A 7.62 will 'stop' a man - and wise soldiers made that point at the time. in Afghanistan the 5.56 was shown to be too light with TB continuing to fight, yet sometimes carrying 2-3 'hits'. Worse, that failure of 'weight' to stop such lunatics as suicide bombers, led to numerous tragedies. I've never forgotten it and, irrespective of the damage to the meat, went for something that 'stops'. Unless, of course you're faced with a superhuman roe buck which certainly humbled me and taught me a lesson.
The 'changing direction' of roe is not something I'd properly considered but will in future - if I haven't asked (very kindly) 'Wolverine'/George and UKSHA (on this forum) to work his dogs first!
I use a .308, sako gamehead bullet, soft point and 123g. They seem incredibly accurate and, up to now, have knocked down everything I've hit. I know .308 is quite big for roe but I wanted something with reasonable surety for red. As an aside, when the army went for 5.56 instead of 7.62 (not a decision I was not involved in), we sacrificed a lot. A 7.62 will 'stop' a man - and wise soldiers made that point at the time. in Afghanistan the 5.56 was shown to be too light with TB continuing to fight, yet sometimes carrying 2-3 'hits'. Worse, that failure of 'weight' to stop such lunatics as suicide bombers, led to numerous tragedies. I've never forgotten it and, irrespective of the damage to the meat, went for something that 'stops'. Unless, of course you're faced with a superhuman roe buck which certainly humbled me and taught me a lesson.
marriottpckh
Member
Cootmeurer, sorry I missed your post. I like the flagging idea very much, you can often get disorientated and this is a simple practical solution which must help.
Krabryn
Well-Known Member
I've found these bright orange clips very useful to mark up the firing point, shot site and apparent trail and always carry a few.
https://www.bushwear.co.uk/catalogsearch/result/?q=marker
Without them, it was a case of - 'Now was it this bush or this tree from where I last saw it disappear? It all looks so different from this angle!'
Completely agree that lack of that thwack doesn't mean I missed and roe can end up in a different direction from whence they went!
https://www.bushwear.co.uk/catalogsearch/result/?q=marker
Without them, it was a case of - 'Now was it this bush or this tree from where I last saw it disappear? It all looks so different from this angle!'
Completely agree that lack of that thwack doesn't mean I missed and roe can end up in a different direction from whence they went!
countrryboy
Well-Known Member
Always handy to have a few meters of tikky tape? warning/tree marking/underground cable tape in ur pocket/bag for things like this dead easy to rip a small section of to mark ur shooting position and where u thought the shot site was and tie it to a stick/branch etc
Very easy to become disorientated when u have moved esp if ur searching
If u really want clips like above just attach some of that tape stuff to clothes pegs, handy for track training a dog, but in practice ur as well just carying some of the tape and tieing it to wotever u'd clip it too, less stuff to carry.
Plus must be miles of that warning tape scattered about the country so u can usually pick bits up for nowt, not that the rolls are dear anyway and will last forever if this is ur only use for them
Very easy to become disorientated when u have moved esp if ur searching
If u really want clips like above just attach some of that tape stuff to clothes pegs, handy for track training a dog, but in practice ur as well just carying some of the tape and tieing it to wotever u'd clip it too, less stuff to carry.
Plus must be miles of that warning tape scattered about the country so u can usually pick bits up for nowt, not that the rolls are dear anyway and will last forever if this is ur only use for them
Maybe the bullet hit something en route and split or glance off target. I once shot a roebuck in a wheat field at dusk, it dropped and I crossed a ditch and walked over to where I was convinced it dropped - it wasn't there. I called my mate up and we both searched the area well into darkness, still no joy.
I went home sick as a pig. We were stalking the area at dawn next day so next morning we walked over to where I took the shot, walked out to where I though it fell and there it was, dead as a dodo (if a little gassed up as it was a hot night). How we missed it the night before I is unbelievable - our previous tracks could still be seen only a few feet away from it.
I went home sick as a pig. We were stalking the area at dawn next day so next morning we walked over to where I took the shot, walked out to where I though it fell and there it was, dead as a dodo (if a little gassed up as it was a hot night). How we missed it the night before I is unbelievable - our previous tracks could still be seen only a few feet away from it.
I've been stalking for years and haven't yet lost a deer, probably because I'm over-cautious before taking a shot. If I did lose one, while I'd search for it thoroughly, I don't think I'd be that upset if I couldn't find it as local predators will most certainly make short work of the carcass.
So what underpins the 'no deer left behind' ethos I'm picking up here - is it regret over lost venison, upset that the animal might be suffering, concern that it might stagger into a public place with a bullet hole?
Is the same concern applied to a wounded/missing fox or rabbit and if not, why not?
So what underpins the 'no deer left behind' ethos I'm picking up here - is it regret over lost venison, upset that the animal might be suffering, concern that it might stagger into a public place with a bullet hole?
Is the same concern applied to a wounded/missing fox or rabbit and if not, why not?
jackfish
Well-Known Member
Got to be animal welfare 1st and foremost, I'm sure no one wants to think of the animal suffering somewhere unable to fend for itself with something that was done by their actions. Secondly it's piece of mind for the stalker.
Surely you can grasp these ethics?
As for rabbit and fox, same applies!
Surely you can grasp these ethics?
As for rabbit and fox, same applies!
That's partly my point...the same ethic, or code of correct behaviour in a particular context, may in theory apply for wounded foxes or rabbits but it does not apply in practice. How likely is someone to return the next day to search for a wounded rabbit or fox after spending the evening doing the same? I have never heard of this happening and also suspect that there isn't a tracking call-out service that searches for injured rabbits on request.
Are deer a different and more revered class of animal? Or is it just because they're bigger, therefore it's disconcerting to leave a carcass with a wound where it might be found by a member of the public.
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
It's a mix of things and speaking for myself, deer are beautiful animals and if I am going to take the life of animal for food it is only right and proper that I do it humanely and that the venison will is recovered and used properly. Ditto for ducks, geese and game birds. Personally I don't like pigeon to eat and actually I don't like the featheriness of pigeons - pheasants are bad enough, so I don't shoot them. I do shoot foxes on ground that I manage, more because they take lambs, but I don't like shooting foxes unless I have to. Again I do want ensure it is a clean kill.
We do live on a crowded little island and many people will distressed finding a dead deer or fox, so it is important that any remains are disposed of discretely. I must admit did see foxes hung on a gateway - first time I had seen this in a very long time and did think it was somewhat unnecessary and just adding fuel to those who don't understand the country side.
We do live on a crowded little island and many people will distressed finding a dead deer or fox, so it is important that any remains are disposed of discretely. I must admit did see foxes hung on a gateway - first time I had seen this in a very long time and did think it was somewhat unnecessary and just adding fuel to those who don't understand the country side.
My Zelda's record was in the deep snows last winter before last and she was gone for just under 5 hours after a deer. I nearly froze staying in the field where she went from and walking her route calling for her. She came back limping and had to be helped home. So much for that stupid comment on the web that "they are never more than 50 yards away from your side."
ChrisWill184
Well-Known Member
I look at it this way. Deer can make it a long way with a wound. They are big and I would say can stay alive longer than a smaller animal with any given wound before eventually dying or possibly recovering (though I am waiting for an argument on that!!). To try and limit the suffering that occurs here regardless of whether it was a fatal shot or not should be high on any deer stalkers list from an ethical point of view.
When it comes to smaller animals such as rabbits, game birds, pigeons etc, a good amount of time is spent searching, usually with dogs as most of the time they are close to hand, and these animals rarely get too far from the point of fall. Yes pheasants can run an awful long way and I have picked runners that have gone 200yds but for the most part they lay up under the nearest available cover. The smaller animals will most likely be hoovered up by predators soon after the event but I am not sure for deer. Would a / a few badgers / foxes take out a wounded deer? Regardless - would I go back the next day to look for a wounded bird? Probably not. I would have spent a fair time looking for it during the day with 2 dogs and I would expect the local predators to have had it during the night making my search pretty useless.
We should all strive to follow up on ANY wounded animals. To not do that makes us look terrible not only to the antis but also to those who have not made up their mind about shooting sports. I have had arguments with so called sportsmen after they have left wounded birds to get to the next drive/lunch/back to the car for a dram. It is simply not on but if a reasonably thorough follow up is made I think you can rest easily knowing you have done what you can.
I have called UKSHA out once and it was a relatively quick find with only 4 strands of hair to go on and no blood trail. It was dead only 50yards in, in heavy woodland cover but could I find it, could I hell! The guys and the dogs are great and wouldn't hesitate to call them again.
When it comes to smaller animals such as rabbits, game birds, pigeons etc, a good amount of time is spent searching, usually with dogs as most of the time they are close to hand, and these animals rarely get too far from the point of fall. Yes pheasants can run an awful long way and I have picked runners that have gone 200yds but for the most part they lay up under the nearest available cover. The smaller animals will most likely be hoovered up by predators soon after the event but I am not sure for deer. Would a / a few badgers / foxes take out a wounded deer? Regardless - would I go back the next day to look for a wounded bird? Probably not. I would have spent a fair time looking for it during the day with 2 dogs and I would expect the local predators to have had it during the night making my search pretty useless.
We should all strive to follow up on ANY wounded animals. To not do that makes us look terrible not only to the antis but also to those who have not made up their mind about shooting sports. I have had arguments with so called sportsmen after they have left wounded birds to get to the next drive/lunch/back to the car for a dram. It is simply not on but if a reasonably thorough follow up is made I think you can rest easily knowing you have done what you can.
I have called UKSHA out once and it was a relatively quick find with only 4 strands of hair to go on and no blood trail. It was dead only 50yards in, in heavy woodland cover but could I find it, could I hell! The guys and the dogs are great and wouldn't hesitate to call them again.
Great post, I echo your sentiment.
baguio
Well-Known Member
I would say that its more likely that you haven't lost one because you haven't shot enough deer! Not wishing to sound disparaging but it doesn't matter how careful you are, eventually something will go wrong. I probably got to close to 100 before I lost one (Munty doe at last light that moved just as I took the shot). Never think that you're too careful to lose one because life has a way of bringing you back down to earth with a bump!
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