MeatEater's brother out for blood. How many wounded and lost beasts?

[Overlay]

Personally I don't think that owning a highly trained deer dog will prevent shots from going wrong.
If the dog finds a deer that is still alive then the shot went wrong.
If the deer needs a second shot then the first shot went wrong.
If the deer takes more than 30 seconds to die after being shot then the shot went wrong IMO.
If the deer was clean missed the shot obviously went wrong.

I’ve just started watching meat eater, one of the things that jumps out is that they don’t have a tracking hound facility given the ground and cover on some places which is all part of the bigger picture, but it’s entertainment within the realms of it does miss out on plenty of basics, the places they go are or would be on your own bucket list, it’s worth watching just to see the ground they shoot over.

it’s entertainment and if you wanted to see an hour re sighting in a rifle or tracking on a runner it wouldn’t be the same as field to fork which is the spearhead of it and aimed at a wider audience would be dragged out

i love the gear they have. There is so much more available in the US compared to the uk, but then again our shooting is different here

 

[dobber]

most appear backward hill billies

vs tweed wearing elitists?

I know a lot of people in the US and while some certainly are back woods hill billies, its funny listening to some of them - while being a professional in some line of work - like listening to a Scouser doctor who is about to perform brain surgery
In each State/Province there are different hunting rules, within each State and Province its broken into lots of game management units that are completely different than their neighbor. Some archaic rules - no discharging of a firearm on Sundays, no use of dogs, no use of any .30 caliber (this one was from WW2 when a lot returning came home with their .303's

 

[alberta boy]

In a lot of the states over the pond dogs can not be used to follow tracks loose or in harness

A lot of provinces in Canada do the same . In Alberta , it is illegal to have a dog with you while hunting big game ( Cougar exempted ) or for tracking afterwards . Doing so will result in heavy fines , loss of hunting privileges for up to 5 years and seizure of vehicles and equipment . Which brings me to a point , things are done differently in other countries . Most of the people I know who hunt in Alberta are horrified by the thought of selling game . You will do serious jail time here if caught doing it and will be shunned by people you know . It's perfectly legal in the UK and that's OK , it is traditional to do so and it works for you . Different places do things differently .

AB

 

[alberta boy]

Yep ok .So on a leash will get your dog killed .
Get back to me when your sober .
And yes from what I’ve seen on the tube ,most appear backward hill billies .

You're better than that brother .

AB

 

[devon deer stalker]

Most of the people I know who hunt in Alberta are horrified by the thought of selling game . You will do serious jail time here if caught doing it and will be shunned by people you know . It's perfectly legal in the UK and that's OK , it is traditional to do so and it works for you . Different places do things differently .

AB

Not a tradition here, but I believe the tradition in the US (is Canada the same?) is for hunting to provide meat to sustain you through the winter, a long tradition dating back to when your ancestors came across the pond?

I agree with your other points, people who haven't hunted across the pond just don't realise the different rules for different states, especially using dogs.

Cheers

Richard

 

[JMikeyH]

In what world do animals go plop dead after the shot ? Getting it wrong ? O my god it was not dead 30 seconds after the shot ! Are we talking brain dead , I think this shows the naivety of some posters, even a head shot may not have rendered the animal completely dead.
If you have never had to finish a animal off then you have not killed many, just off goat shooting will they all die instantly? No, will they all be dead within 5 minutes depends on the terrain but they will all be accounted for yes

Are you in NZ right now? Have you always been there?

 

[Hayduke]

OP Don't worry, Muntjac are an invasive pest, have open season year round, they don't count they're vermin

 

[Cootmeurer]

Couple thoughts on this.

First, I get the distinct impression that brother is a bit jealous. Maybe he is rightly pointing out some issues, but family can be your greatest ally or worst enemy, and sometimes both.

Second, anytime you recruit new people you are going to increase the negatives as they learn. Doesn’t matter if it’s football or painting or hunting, new people screw up a lot as they learn. As you become more experienced you usually screw up less, either because you pass on those iffy situations, or you just don’t have the same bloodlust.

 

[alberta boy]

Not a tradition here, but I believe the tradition in the US (is Canada the same?) is for hunting to provide meat to sustain you through the winter, a long tradition dating back to when your ancestors came across the pond?

I agree with your other points, people who haven't hunted across the pond just don't realise the different rules for different states, especially using dogs.

Cheers

Richard

First Nations ( Native ) people are allowed to subsistence hunt , everyone else is limited by tags . Most who still live in the bush , trappers for example , will take game if they need it . There's no one in the remote regions to enforce game laws , so it's a bit of a " don't ask , don't tell "situation . Most Natural Resource Officers I know will turn a blind eye to someone taking game to feed their families if they fall on hard times . I've seen that happen a number of times over the years . The further North you go , the more open to interpretation the game laws become , it gets left to the locals as to what's acceptable . As disorganised as it sounds , it does work for the most part .

AB

 

[Taff]

Are you in NZ right now? Have you always been there?

In Nz now, lived in the uk until 2015, hunted deer mainly in Hampshire.

 

[User00040]

In Nz now, lived in the uk until 2015, hunted deer mainly in Hampshire.

Adopt me please!

 

[foxdropper]

You're better than that brother .

AB

Your right and I apologise .Just feel the meateater program could be so much better .

 

[foxdropper]

A lot of provinces in Canada do the same . In Alberta , it is illegal to have a dog with you while hunting big game ( Cougar exempted ) or for tracking afterwards . Doing so will result in heavy fines , loss of hunting privileges for up to 5 years and seizure of vehicles and equipment . Which brings me to a point , things are done differently in other countries . Most of the people I know who hunt in Alberta are horrified by the thought of selling game . You will do serious jail time here if caught doing it and will be shunned by people you know . It's perfectly legal in the UK and that's OK , it is traditional to do so and it works for you . Different places do things differently .

AB

Is there a reason quoted for this sir( the no tracking dog rule )Has it been abused in the past .

 

[dobber]

Is there a reason quoted for this sir( the no tracking dog rule )Has it been abused in the past

Our provinces are ruled by "science" lol sorry, couldn't help but laugh at the statement.
We get to use tracking dogs here in Ontario, heck can even use hounds for deer and bear

Again, the rules are made by people who just dont understand, its like the no discharge or firearms on Sundays - yet i can bow hunt Sundays, can't use a 308 south of hwy 7, but can use a .270 since its not a .30 cal.

 

[RM100]

A lot of provinces in Canada do the same . In Alberta , it is illegal to have a dog with you while hunting big game ( Cougar exempted ) or for tracking afterwards . Doing so will result in heavy fines , loss of hunting privileges for up to 5 years and seizure of vehicles and equipment . Which brings me to a point , things are done differently in other countries . Most of the people I know who hunt in Alberta are horrified by the thought of selling game . You will do serious jail time here if caught doing it and will be shunned by people you know . It's perfectly legal in the UK and that's OK , it is traditional to do so and it works for you . Different places do things differently .

AB

I wonder what is the reasoning behind a. No dogs and b. No selling game.

Any idea?

 

[alberta boy]

Is there a reason quoted for this sir( the no tracking dog rule )Has it been abused in the past .

In Alberta , it's a left over from the market hunting days . Dogs like the Norwegian Elghound were used by a lot of settlers , we have a very large population of people of Scandinavian descent , others used sight hounds , some just used whatever dog they had . When market hunting was shut down , as it had to be , our wildlife populations were being decimated , the practice of using dogs on big game was associated with market hunting and banned along with it . Personally , I think it's ridiculous but it is deeply entrenched in our game laws . In later years , the anti hunting crowd jumped in and used Ontario ( sorry dobber ) as an example of animal cruelty . They portrayed the deer as being terrified and pursued relentlessly by hounds and then shot to pieces by incompetent hunters as they ran for their lives . You face the same BS in the UK , the anti hunting crowd have never let truth get in the way of their narrative . In any event , the use of dogs here , even for grouse and waterfowl , is nothing like the UK and Europe . Some people do it , but they are a small minority . Most people are careful about taking dogs into wilderness areas , or any rural area to be honest . Any dog at large ( not leashed ) in most parts of Alberta can be legally shot , in fact , it's our Natural Resource Departments policy to destroy any dog seen roaming on crown land . There is a zero tolerance for non native species here , cats included . Most get killed by our native carnivores quite quickly . Fish and Wildlife officers will tell most people not to take dogs of any sort into bear country in particular . A number of people have been killed or badly injured over the years by bears that were after their unleashed pets . Dogs , just by doing what dogs do , have a knack of finding bears and chasing after them . Bears don't like dogs and aren't scared of them ( Grizzlies aren't scared by much of anything ) so if your dog has the bad luck of actually catching up to a bear , the bear will chase and try and kill your dog , sows with cubs can be particularly determined to finish them off . When your dog realises he's about to get a terminal ass kicking , he heads for , what he thinks , is safety . You . The dog can usually out run a bear , you don't stand a hope in hell . What starts out as a relaxing walk ends with 300 pounds of enraged carnivore hell bent on killing something boiling out of the bush directly for you lol . Long story short , I doubt we'll ever see a change in policy regarding the use of dogs for big game in Alberta . Sometimes , it's a funny place .

AB

 

[alberta boy]

I wonder what is the reasoning behind a. No dogs and b. No selling game.

Any idea?

The above post explains the dogs . The thought of selling game here is a cultural thing . Firstly , game belongs to the province ( residents of Alberta ) not landowners . You can own 20 sections of land , but you get tags like everyone else . If the season allows one Bull Elk , that's what you are legally allowed to take . It's illegal to charge for access to private land for the purpose of hunting in Alberta , you don't own the game , therefore you can't make money from it . It is a completely different mindset over here , again , it largely came about from the market hunting era . Since those days ended and our wildlife populations recovered , game is readily available to everyone . A very large proportion of Albertans hunt , we have huge areas of crown land ( no one owns it , open access to all ) so we have unlimited opportunities to hunt many different species of big game . In short , these days , there is no market for game . Why would I buy it , and in doing so , pay for handling , inevitable government intervention and bureaucracy and middle men , when I can go out and get it myself ? The visceral reaction to selling game here is Poacher , stealing resources for personal gain , and will get you jail time , and occasionally a bit of a thumping by locals if you get caught by them . It is a deeply ingrained part of our mentality for better or for worse . Most here , Native, Whites and more recent immigrants , view our big game as something that belongs to all of us and , if necessary , can be counted on to help us through hard times . It is a ritual here among First Nations and Whites to share meat with those who are without . We share what we have , it's part of our culture . The thought of selling it is just not part of our culture . In the UK , you carefully manage deer populations and are very good at it . You have incredibly high population densities of humans and very little wild places . We have the opposite . We don't manage game numbers for the most part , it's too big and would be futile . We manage the humans , if game numbers in an area drop because of winter kill or high Wolf numbers , we shut it down to hunting and go somewhere else . It's a big place so we have that luxury . Hopefully , not too long a ramble and will shed a little light on our traditions .

AB

 

[brandon]

I have done and still do many driven hunts from boar and deer to springbok and other African game and use the same sights as when I am stalking, just drop the magnification down. See very little difference between shooting a running animal on a driven hunt or if I was on the plains in America. Perhaps you could explain exactly what the difference is. I don't know what sort of driven hunts you have done but I have never been on one where I knew exactly how far my shots were going to be or where they were going to be especially on driven hunts in Africa

On driven hunts I use a long eye relief scope with 4 mag. Most or all of driven hunts I have been on we are told where our safe shooting area is and usually it is pretty thick cover so Is rarely over 100 yards and you know where the beaters are coming from so you have a very good idea of where the animals will be coming from giving you better chance to plan and respond.

 

[TH4]

And most of the running shots in the states are from 20 to 100 yards so what is the difference. Not all driven hunts are the same. Try a Spanish monteria or a springbok cull, completely different. Experience a few different types of hunt and it may make you see the point that there is no real difference.

 

[RM100]

The above post explains the dogs . The thought of selling game here is a cultural thing . Firstly , game belongs to the province ( residents of Alberta ) not landowners . You can own 20 sections of land , but you get tags like everyone else . If the season allows one Bull Elk , that's what you are legally allowed to take . It's illegal to charge for access to private land for the purpose of hunting in Alberta , you don't own the game , therefore you can't make money from it . It is a completely different mindset over here , again , it largely came about from the market hunting era . Since those days ended and our wildlife populations recovered , game is readily available to everyone . A very large proportion of Albertans hunt , we have huge areas of crown land ( no one owns it , open access to all ) so we have unlimited opportunities to hunt many different species of big game . In short , these days , there is no market for game . Why would I buy it , and in doing so , pay for handling , inevitable government intervention and bureaucracy and middle men , when I can go out and get it myself ? The visceral reaction to selling game here is Poacher , stealing resources for personal gain , and will get you jail time , and occasionally a bit of a thumping by locals if you get caught by them . It is a deeply ingrained part of our mentality for better or for worse . Most here , Native, Whites and more recent immigrants , view our big game as something that belongs to all of us and , if necessary , can be counted on to help us through hard times . It is a ritual here among First Nations and Whites to share meat with those who are without . We share what we have , it's part of our culture . The thought of selling it is just not part of our culture . In the UK , you carefully manage deer populations and are very good at it . You have incredibly high population densities of humans and very little wild places . We have the opposite . We don't manage game numbers for the most part , it's too big and would be futile . We manage the humans , if game numbers in an area drop because of winter kill or high Wolf numbers , we shut it down to hunting and go somewhere else . It's a big place so we have that luxury . Hopefully , not too long a ramble and will shed a little light on our traditions .

AB

Thanks.