Mentor query

Braces Airgun Masters
T

Tabs

Well-Known Member
Afternoon Gents,

just received a phone call from a friend, a new FAC holder with a few queries which I can't answer.

He has been been conditioned to have a mentor, happy to do so, however he has been told by FEO that he is looking at a large amount of culls completed before being deemed safe to carry out lone stalking, not been given a definitive number.
My thoughts are that as long as he shows me he is safe and competent, has understanding of the species he is stalking and that I have enough faith in this to state so to the local force, that should be enough regardless of numbers culled. I will be more focussed on when the shot is not taken rather than numbers of beasts grassed. He has DSC1.

I am currently carrying out the same for another chap, a farmer with almost a decade of shooting experience (shotgun and rimfire), yet no mention of number has been made (different FLO, same constabulary), they deem him safe however to lamp foxes with CF without a mentor signing off (he is very safe and competent and a good lamping partner btw).....inconsistant or unenforceable?

Any thoughts and previous experiences appreciated.

Tabs
 
????????????????????
really dont get it.

I dont see how hunting deer in daylight is so difficult
or dangerous
as compared with riding round in the pitch dark
hunting foxes and other stray creatures that have eye shine

surely taking and getting DSC 1 is enough.
 
Tell them they are being completely out of order. If they deem you not be a danger to the public and issue an FAC then they have no cause to insist on mentor, number of animals culled, dsc1 or any other such bull***t. You have applied with good reason to posses a firearm. They have found no good reason for refusal. End of. You don't need to complete any type of competency test. Just the police making up their own laws again. Your mate should not stand for it. Problem is so many do and then the police see it as normal practice. Until the home office bring in any further conditions relating to ability to use a fire arm all we are applying for is the right to own one.
 
write a letter after six months say he is good to go, that's if he is obviously
 
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Contact your shooting organisation for advise before replying to the police, bearing in mind recent recommendations regarding mentoring from ACPO.
 
8x57 said:
Contact your shooting organisation for advise before replying to the police, bearing in mind recent recommendations regarding mentoring from ACPO.
Click to expand...

Got a link 8x57?
Big dinner + glass of wine = feeling a bit lazy.

Really dont get it.

I dont see how hunting deer in daylight is so difficult
or dangerous
as compared with riding round in the pitch dark
hunting foxes and other stray creatures that have eye shine

​Couldn't agree more, far more scope for a misjudgement imho.

surely taking and getting DSC 1 is enough.

Thats a different discussion. Add some firearm experience to that however, and Im unsure how anyone could argue. They are asking for mentor to walk his ground also. Ground that has been shot as part of a very large estate for over a century.

We have ground between us to cull half a dozen or so in the next week or two, may just jump through the hoops to keep things simple.

Tabs

 
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Not immediately to hand but David at BASC put something up on the site at the time of the announcement, and you can also look in the guidance to police document as it should be in there also.
Basically mentoring conditions should be the exception rather than the rule.
 
I applied for my FAC and had a closed cert.
I did my DSC1 and applied for a .270 for stalking, when my certificate was returned I had an open certificate and no restrictive clauses.
It looks as if each force interprets the guidance differently or have no understanding of their own system.
Cumbria Police were brilliant on every occasion I have delt with them.
 
Just recived my cert back from South Yorkshire police with a .243 and deer on it with any other legal quarry and an open ticket with no mentor or any other restriction on it ?????
If the police themselves carnt find any uniformity in issuing cert country wide how are we expected to understand the whole situation!!!!!!!!!
 
Ive been on a mentoring clause for just under a year now, it's a right PITA as my mentor and the land I'm allowed to be mentored on is 75 miles from where I live. A farmer friend who I used to play rugby with has been pestering me to go and sort the deer out on his land as they are hammering the crops and he is 2 minutes on my quad from where I live!

To be honest when they sent it back I wasn't a member here and took it on the chin, I've had 8 successful stalks 5 walked and 3 from high seats and to date have shot 8 bullets to do so, now I want to get the mentoring removed from my ticket, its been on there nearly 12 months. My mentorship also went on to say that it is recommended I get my DSC1, and although I want to do it I have a young family and weekends are precious so I haven't done anything about it yet, ideally I'd like my ticket opened up as well, so I was thinking 18 months and then write in and ask for AOLQ and opening up. However I see Erik Hamburger who isn't far from me and under the same Police Force has just been told that Glos don't recognise it at the moment.

So I'm interested on all comments and hoping to see the BASC recommendations as well!

Thanks

Nick
 
My understanding is that mentoring conditions are now not supposed to be the option although the minutes of the last FELWEG meeting seem to be taking a long time to be published.
 
Mentors are going out of style, we keep hearing lately. However here we have someone not only being told that he needs a mentor but also being told that he'll need a whole lot of mentoring before he is to be considered safe to stalk on his own.

I appreciate it's not you of course Tabs, but a friend. But two scenarios spring to mind. The first is that your friend in some way has given reason to bring into consideration that he may be unsafe (doesn't sound like that though), or the FEO (or more likely the FLO) is being unreasonable. There does, from what you've said (including the farmer you mention) seem to be a blanket policy for that police force that anyone wanting a rifle for shooting deer has to be mentored to within an inch of their life.

As the mentor for these two people, I would think it reasonable for you to contact the FLO and ask to what extent this is policy and to what extent these people need mentoring, how long, how many stalks, etc. Not an unreasonable request as you need to know what you're getting yourself into in terms of time and commitment.

Then armed with this information, decide what to do, although I would suggest it's up to the new stalkers to do what they think best.
 
An interesting thought as to who is being protected here. Lets say for example my local permission has land suitable for a CF calibre (Mike I know your thoughts) I have hypothetically been told I'd be fine to control fox on the land without any need for a mentor. At the same time having proposed putting deer on the ticket for the same calibre, the fact that mentoring may be required is mentioned. In this case it seems to me that the FEO is considering the safety of the deer, not the general public. If he is willing to let me out at night unmentored to shoot fox but thinks I'm not capable of shooting deer without a mentor present I wonder where these judgements are coming from!
 
Joe I follow what you are saying and you make sense. I wouldn't think that West Mercia will place a mentoring condition on you as generally they appear quite reasonable and apply logical thought processes but I can't say the same for Gloucestershire. Common sense doesn't always come into it with them.
 
Tabs said:
Afternoon Gents,

just received a phone call from a friend, a new FAC holder with a few queries which I can't answer.

He has been been conditioned to have a mentor, happy to do so, however he has been told by FEO that he is looking at a large amount of culls completed before being deemed safe to carry out lone stalking, not been given a definitive number.
My thoughts are that as long as he shows me he is safe and competent, has understanding of the species he is stalking and that I have enough faith in this to state so to the local force, that should be enough regardless of numbers culled. I will be more focussed on when the shot is not taken rather than numbers of beasts grassed. He has DSC1.

I am currently carrying out the same for another chap, a farmer with almost a decade of shooting experience (shotgun and rimfire), yet no mention of number has been made (different FLO, same constabulary), they deem him safe however to lamp foxes with CF without a mentor signing off (he is very safe and competent and a good lamping partner btw).....inconsistant or unenforceable?

Any thoughts and previous experiences appreciated.

Tabs
Click to expand...

i take it you agreed to be a mentor ,if this gentleman is safe can do the job, understands the process ,write to the police and tell them you have been out with the said person on a number of occasions ,and see no reason for him not to allowed to carry this task on his own as he has demonstrated he has the ability to carryout the task to the required code of practice as layed down by the best practice guide .


All the calling BASC is crap, your the person that has been tasked as the mentor to this person not BASC. the mentor scheme is a piece of crap at the end of the day it is the person who is holding the weapon that is in charge ,if something goes wrong you the mentor cannot be held responsible for there actions .

This is where BASC should be involved by getting these practices stopped ,because the mentor is not incharge of the weapon or ammunition at any stage, the FAC holder keeps both weapon and ammunition at his home ,if he is in charge of it at home he is a responsibility person all the time .

the very reason this all came about was people trying to bend the system to obtain FAC's by using a mentor and DMQ level one as a standard now this is common practice which doesnt work , where again Basc has been used again to justify this practice, where it should have actually said no to it nipping it in the bud .


Rod and back come to mind .
 
Unless I am mistaken BASC have been opposed to mentoring all along and were instrimental in persauding CC Marsh and ACPO to recommend that mentoring should only be applied under certain circumstances and should not be the norm as it had become in some force areas.

I agree entirely with what you say widows son about the mentor having no control whatsoever over the shooter when he is at home and he has access to firearms, but in the field the mentor could possibly (I stress could) be regarded legally as having so responsability and something goes wrong as he has agreed to it. I believe that that is why all the shooting organisations as far as I know have been so opposed to mentoring all along. It really boils down to police forces trying to shift responsability and not making the only decision that really counts and that is - is the applicant suitable to possess firearms or not.
 
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