New wood pigeon licence ‘not fit for purpose’, says BASC

[DebbieBASC]

New wood pigeon licence ‘not fit for purpose’, says BASC

May 3, 2019

BASC has said the new general licence issued by Natural England for the control of wood pigeon to prevent serious damage to crops is not fit for purpose.

The licence was published at the same time as a new general licence for control of Canada geese ‘to preserve public health and safety’.

The licences were issued late on Friday night as replacements for the general licences revoked without consultation by Natural England on April 25.

BASC’s experts are examining the detail of the licences but have already expressed serious concerns about the terms and conditions of the wood pigeon document.

BASC chairman Peter Glenser QC said: “The rural organisations were unsighted on the wood pigeon general licence dropped on us late on Friday night, contrary to assurances from Natural England earlier in the week that our technical expertise would be used in the drafting of the document.

“On initial review of this licence, it is not fit for purpose. It has many of the same deficiencies as the new carrion crow general licence issued last weekend, is over-complicated and confusing.
“BASC and the other rural organisations will be pressing for significant changes to be made so that we can have a more effective licence in the short term and we will all expect to feed into any long-term review of these licences.”

BASC had delivered a two-page briefing to Natural England earlier in the week which highlighted the importance of wood pigeon control to rural England.

 

[paul o']

Hmmm but then again NE are unfit for purpose so we can't expect anything more than just more drivel from them .

 

[badbob]

Thanks Debbie.
Clearly N. E. are trying to stop all shooting for sport or recreation.
I hope my letter to Mr Gove has helped galvanise him into some action.
Firstly sacking the dreamers in N.E.

 

[Benelli m2]

Thanks Debbie.
Clearly N. E. are trying to stop all shooting for sport or recreation.
I hope my letter to Mr Gove has helped galvanise him into some action.
Firstly sacking the dreamers in N.E.

Think they been let out on a loony home on early release

 

[Benelli m2]

So anyone been pidgeon shooting over the weekend

 

[Gm81]

So anyone been pidgeon shooting over the weekend

If anyone had, i think to say it on public forum - really?
Social media is one of the reasons we are here. What people don’t know doesn’t hurt them
No pictures or evidence. It’s not happened

 

[Benelli m2]

There is a GL 31 for them for the protection of crops

 

[hendrix's rifle]

If anyone had, i think to say it on public forum - really?
Social media is one of the reasons we are here. What people don’t know doesn’t hurt them
No pictures or evidence. It’s not happened

The license for crop protection is in place so it wouldn't make a difference...?

 

[Benelli m2]

As long as the scare tactics are employed first like fire some shots in the air first if come back them fire to fill the bag

 

[Gm81]

I think you’ve both missed the point of social media and it’s fuel for who ever.

Im aware that there is a licence now. But what I’m saying is why tell the world that you are doing it?

Also if you fire some shots to scare, why don’t you do that everytime the pigeons come? This is my view and question line I would be asking in a prosecution situation.
Dont get me wrong. I’ve lost my favourite sport roost shooting over this. I’m lucky to have had this year at it . But hoping it’s all sorted for winter with the ability to shoot them as a Food source not trying to pussy foot around a prosecutions idea of what scare tactics were enough.

This is the major part. Let’s imagine a person (vegan, lets go extreme) is the judge or prosecution. Do you think they will be happy with two shots in the air lets crack on? Bringing birds in with decoys - crop protection or encouraged attraction?
We need definitive facts of what is the amounts of each tatic. Numbers/time not opinions or such.
Unfortunately guys I’m keeping quiet and being very reserved in the moments we are in. I don’t put anything of what i do on social media anyway. I don’t want to lose my sole relaxation for Internet pics and comments. Or be the first to find the line in the sand.
Again my view and devils advocate ideas. But until basc (my insurance) release something more which could be forever i know. I want to go out knowing if there’s an issue, it can be supported in court.

 

[Woodsy]

Does anyone have a link to the new GL for pigeon?

 

[Benelli m2]

Does anyone have a link to the new GL for pigeon?

It's not really worth the paper it's written on

 

[AN DU RU FOX]

NGO says its worthless.

 

[paul o']

Its point less and it is as much use as a chocolate fire guard

 

[Benelli m2]

Its point less and it is as much use as a chocolate fire guard

Or an ashtray on a motorbike

 

[ChesterP]

I think you’ve both missed the point of social media and it’s fuel for who ever.

Im aware that there is a licence now. But what I’m saying is why tell the world that you are doing it?

Also if you fire some shots to scare, why don’t you do that everytime the pigeons come? This is my view and question line I would be asking in a prosecution situation.
Dont get me wrong. I’ve lost my favourite sport roost shooting over this. I’m lucky to have had this year at it . But hoping it’s all sorted for winter with the ability to shoot them as a Food source not trying to pussy foot around a prosecutions idea of what scare tactics were enough.

This is the major part. Let’s imagine a person (vegan, lets go extreme) is the judge or prosecution. Do you think they will be happy with two shots in the air lets crack on? Bringing birds in with decoys - crop protection or encouraged attraction?
We need definitive facts of what is the amounts of each tatic. Numbers/time not opinions or such.
Unfortunately guys I’m keeping quiet and being very reserved in the moments we are in. I don’t put anything of what i do on social media anyway. I don’t want to lose my sole relaxation for Internet pics and comments. Or be the first to find the line in the sand.
Again my view and devils advocate ideas. But until basc (my insurance) release something more which could be forever i know. I want to go out knowing if there’s an issue, it can be supported in court.

I kid you not...the revised GL mentions the use of pigeon decoys or at least pigeon like models. Here's an extract from the new GL31 for Pigeon taken from Table 1:

Use a wide range of devices and methods, varying them as often as possible, and use active human scaring. Random movement, sound, and unpredictability help prevent the birds getting used to scaring devices.

 Woodpigeon models (particularly those with outstretched wings, showing the white wing bars) to give the impression of dead birds, and kites/hawk-kites can be effective in deterring woodpigeons.
 If using scarecrows, make it look as real as possible, dress it in your old clothes, sit it on a chair and put a gun-like stick in its hand, move it regularly (ideally daily or more frequently). Occasionally change places with the scarecrow, and use this method to shoot to scare or to kill woodpigeons (under licence).
 Gas cannons, pyrotechnics and recordings of woodpigeon alarm calls can be used effectively, especially when combined with visual deterrents and shooting to scare. Gas cannons should be moved frequently to maintain their effect.
 Shooting to scare is a highly effective method, especially when combined with other techniques. No licence is required for nonlethal shooting to scare birds.  Scaring and lethal shooting (under licence) typically work best if they are linked and woodpigeons associate deterrents with lethal control and vice versa.
 Scaring is most effective against large flocks of birds, since one bird that is particularly nervous and flies away, will often take the flock with it. WML-GL31 [May 2019] Page 8 of 9 I

The rest of the license is confusing and really unworkable. It's a joke.

So, put down your woodpigeon "models" showing white wing bars and if pigeon still come in, shoot them?

But don't forget to fly your kites, climb trees after you've pinpointed pigeon nests and coat the eggs in paraffin (yes, it really does suggest this in the license conditions rather than tipping the eggs out of the nest...poisoning the chicks instead...that is after you've shinned your way up the tree in the first place!)

It beggars belief. These faceless idiots have zero conception of how nature or the countryside works nor what they're talking about.

As for the use of gas cannon, I know plenty of farmers who hate the things because of the noise disturbance...can you imagine the racket if every crop field had numerous gas cannons going off continually? It's all plain nuts and written by complete pillocks.

Scaring works for a one off time. What about most of the time time no-one is available as farmers have to work for a living...what are they expected to do, employ Eastern Europeans to stand in fields waving their arms about all day? Again, complete pillocks.

The only partially effective means of control is to control numbers as you cannot control the nature of the bird. It goes to crops as they're an easy meal and why wouldn't they? Let the numbers increase then the nuisance and financial losses increase exponentially as numbers rise. No amount of scaring reduces numbers and they are already at pest levels.

I walked around a farm today and it didn't take long to see what impact crows were having in their huge numbers, as well as pigeon and that's before you count things like last seasons pheasant also getting in on the act. Farmers don't have it easy and it's just been made worse for them.

Entitled prats, ill informed environmentalists and TV celebrities have been interfering for too long in matters they have little actual knowledge or experience of other than their biases and prejudices. Real conservationists understand all too well the problems faced and plenty are now siding with the farmers and shooting organisations.

For anyone who wants a giggle...have a look at the detail in this licence...I would suggest that "you couldn't make it up", but someone has obviously been paid to do just that!:

https://assets.publishing.service.g...odpigeons-prevent-serious-damage-to-crops.pdf

 

[Greymaster]

I think the Worzel Gummidge approach is to be recommended. First thing they need to do is get their thinking heads on.

However, in terms of food source, perhaps if we did some sort of religious ritual before shooting, would that exempt us from the laws of humane slaughter?

 

[Matt234]

What's next Rabbits? If I'm not allowed to shoot them could I still use the ferrets sort that one out!

 

[Benelli m2]

I kid you not...the revised GL mentions the use of pigeon decoys or at least pigeon like models. Here's an extract from the new GL31 for Pigeon taken from Table 1:

Use a wide range of devices and methods, varying them as often as possible, and use active human scaring. Random movement, sound, and unpredictability help prevent the birds getting used to scaring devices.

 Woodpigeon models (particularly those with outstretched wings, showing the white wing bars) to give the impression of dead birds, and kites/hawk-kites can be effective in deterring woodpigeons.
 If using scarecrows, make it look as real as possible, dress it in your old clothes, sit it on a chair and put a gun-like stick in its hand, move it regularly (ideally daily or more frequently). Occasionally change places with the scarecrow, and use this method to shoot to scare or to kill woodpigeons (under licence).
 Gas cannons, pyrotechnics and recordings of woodpigeon alarm calls can be used effectively, especially when combined with visual deterrents and shooting to scare. Gas cannons should be moved frequently to maintain their effect.
 Shooting to scare is a highly effective method, especially when combined with other techniques. No licence is required for nonlethal shooting to scare birds.  Scaring and lethal shooting (under licence) typically work best if they are linked and woodpigeons associate deterrents with lethal control and vice versa.
 Scaring is most effective against large flocks of birds, since one bird that is particularly nervous and flies away, will often take the flock with it. WML-GL31 [May 2019] Page 8 of 9 I

The rest of the license is confusing and really unworkable. It's a joke.

So, put down your woodpigeon "models" showing white wing bars and if pigeon still come in, shoot them?

But don't forget to fly your kites, climb trees after you've pinpointed pigeon nests and coat the eggs in paraffin (yes, it really does suggest this in the license conditions rather than tipping the eggs out of the nest...poisoning the chicks instead...that is after you've shinned your way up the tree in the first place!)

It beggars belief. These faceless idiots have zero conception of how nature or the countryside works nor what they're talking about.

As for the use of gas cannon, I know plenty of farmers who hate the things because of the noise disturbance...can you imagine the racket if every crop field had numerous gas cannons going off continually? It's all plain nuts and written by complete pillocks.

Scaring works for a one off time. What about most of the time time no-one is available as farmers have to work for a living...what are they expected to do, employ Eastern Europeans to stand in fields waving their arms about all day? Again, complete pillocks.

The only partially effective means of control is to control numbers as you cannot control the nature of the bird. It goes to crops as they're an easy meal and why wouldn't they? Let the numbers increase then the nuisance and financial losses increase exponentially as numbers rise. No amount of scaring reduces numbers and they are already at pest levels.

I walked around a farm today and it didn't take long to see what impact crows were having in their huge numbers, as well as pigeon and that's before you count things like last seasons pheasant also getting in on the act. Farmers don't have it easy and it's just been made worse for them.

Entitled prats, ill informed environmentalists and TV celebrities have been interfering for too long in matters they have little actual knowledge or experience of other than their biases and prejudices. Real conservationists understand all too well the problems faced and plenty are now siding with the farmers and shooting organisations.

For anyone who wants a giggle...have a look at the detail in this licence...I would suggest that "you couldn't make it up", but someone has obviously been paid to do just that!:

https://assets.publishing.service.g...odpigeons-prevent-serious-damage-to-crops.pdf

They really should be put in a mental home away from civilization

 

[Benelli m2]

I had a wasp in our conservatory today I tried non lethal methods first I hired a gas gun and put up some rope banger's
But had to use lethal methods
Then realized they don't need a GL YET