delta wolf
Well-Known Member
Have an old one and several pairs of their trousers and all have kept me dry. Excellent in my opinion.
Nomad Jackets
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Mc Kenzie in reply to your comment on UK weather.
UK weather can be all 4 seasons in one day. I know we live adjacent to the Gulf Stream and we have generally mild wet weather. Result clothing designed for cold continential weather may not suit. I realise that layers are important but your outer layer is ultimately what will keep you dry. Goretex and other breathable membranes are "great" but you still get sweaty when going upwards. What I am trying to establish is what in folks opinion gained from experience is what do they believe to be the best coat for stalking in the UK and Ireland where we stalk from the seashore to the highlands or hills.
I suppose i am trying to learn from mistakes other folk may have made.
Thanks to all again
UK weather can be all 4 seasons in one day. I know we live adjacent to the Gulf Stream and we have generally mild wet weather. Result clothing designed for cold continential weather may not suit. I realise that layers are important but your outer layer is ultimately what will keep you dry. Goretex and other breathable membranes are "great" but you still get sweaty when going upwards. What I am trying to establish is what in folks opinion gained from experience is what do they believe to be the best coat for stalking in the UK and Ireland where we stalk from the seashore to the highlands or hills.
I suppose i am trying to learn from mistakes other folk may have made.
Thanks to all again
Quadbike, you're going to get a huge range of answers unless you get more specific. Some people value price over performance and some performance over price. Both camps will argue black is white that they are correct. There's also a big difference between activity levels in lowland and highland stalking which often will distort views and a difference in the conditions people will go out in.
In terms of Nomad, I have had one for about 10 years. I found it too heavy and bulky for my stalking and I prefer to layer for insulation rather than have my insulation in the outer layer. I did not find it good in the rain but they might have improved in the past 10 years, and I found that once the smell of rutting stag was in that fleece outer it did'nt like to be washed out.
However, it still sits on a peg by the back door. It's my favourite high seat jacket in cold conditions and also great for hanging out of the top of a vehicle when foxing in the winter. I will not wear it if stalking on foot as I'm pretty active and just get too hot. There are much better products out there, especially for that money.
In terms of Nomad, I have had one for about 10 years. I found it too heavy and bulky for my stalking and I prefer to layer for insulation rather than have my insulation in the outer layer. I did not find it good in the rain but they might have improved in the past 10 years, and I found that once the smell of rutting stag was in that fleece outer it did'nt like to be washed out.
However, it still sits on a peg by the back door. It's my favourite high seat jacket in cold conditions and also great for hanging out of the top of a vehicle when foxing in the winter. I will not wear it if stalking on foot as I'm pretty active and just get too hot. There are much better products out there, especially for that money.
caorach
Well-Known Member
I'm going to rise to this one as over the last few years I've had a bit of a change in my tactics when it comes to coats.
As with many I came the usual route from waxed Barbours to Gore-Tex. I am well aware of layering and all that stuff but even so it seemed to me like most commercially available jackets were far from a good solution no matter what you wore under them. Now, my idea of a good solution will be different from other people simply because of my use but I fish/stalk/walk about 100 days per year in Ireland and the Outer Hebrides so I experience most UK weather except (generally) the extreme cold conditions of inland areas of Northern Scotland. My stalking and fishing often requires long walks over difficult ground followed by periods of little or no activity, the fishing especially can mean 6 miles of tough walking and then a couple of hours standing relatively still on the loch followed by another mile or two to the next loch and another long stand and then 6 miles back out to the parking spot again.
Long story short what I found, even in relatively wet parts of the UK, was that a completely waterproof membrane often left you wetter, colder, and less comfortable than if you'd been wearing a non-waterproof jacket. I started wearing the British army windproof smock and treated it with wash in, or spray on, waterproofing so that it was showerproof. When you sit and think about it then it isn't many days in the year you are out in constant rain so the windproof smock (or other similar solution but the smock is hard to beat) wins maybe 90% or 95% of the time. When it comes to constant heavy rain then, clearly, a non-waterproof jacket doesn't win and in that case I would put a waterproof shell on under the smock - sounds silly but it means I keep all my pockets, the smock keeps the waterproof layer quiet, it can be quite a fragile waterproof layer as it is protected etc. I've used all sorts of things as the waterproof layer, depending on weather or inclination, ranging from £15 commercial shells and army surplus stuff to my Musto Munro jacket and for me the system works well and I use my brain to determine the right combination on any given day.
What you need to understand with this approach is that, just like layering, it is a system and so can't be marketed as "one solution to all your needs" as it requires you to use your brain - if going out on a lovely day then there is no need to carry the waterproof shell, if going out on a rotten day then it might be best to put the waterproof shell on to start with, if it looks like you might get some longer periods of heavy rain later on then the shell can go in a bag or pocket and be deployed as needed. I know our weather is variable, but I don't think I've ever been "caught out" with completely unexpected weather as the forecast plus the windows fitted to most cars and houses allow for assessment in advance.
It is useful to combine this system with a well thought out application of thermal layers. So if walking hard I'd often wear only a shirt or base layer under my smock but when I stop then I'd throw on something warmer while standing fishing or making lunch. With a bit of thought and common sense you can make yourself very comfortable and completely at home even on the most remote ground in the most changeable weather.
Nigel can I ask what coat or coats are you currently using and why do you think each is the "best" at this time. Performance is essentially what I an trying to to get a handle on I may need to purchase several jacket to cover all weather conditions. I was once advised that you only need to buy anything good thing once. It is so easy to read all the sales blurb only to find out that blurb is all you get. What is working in the real world rather than on the pages of glossy adverts
Thanks again
Thanks again
I run 3 layer shell jackets and trousers. Exactly the same technology as the mountaineering guys wear but in shells that are less noisy. I have gear from Sitka and Musto. The Musto Pro Hunter and Munro are unfortunately discontinued now and they have not replaced them with anything near the same performance. The Sitka gear is beautifully made, a different level of quality of make up to anything in the UK. The cammo pattern is too light but it's great in the snow. All of these are Gore Tex 3 layer fabrics.
I want to try the Kuiu gear next. Everyone speaks very highly of it and the few pieces I have seen are very well made. The fabric is from Toray in Japan and is reputed to be as good as Gore Tex. However, I can't really get my head around their cammo patterns which are all designed for west coast US hunting rather than the green of the UK landscape.
As they are all shells they have no insulation and are all highly breathable. Merino underwear from Iceabreaker next to skin and insulated as required with fleece middle layer. I run 100 weight fleece for autumn and if it's really cold, like on the hinds, 200 weight fleece. If in a high seat in the cold I go with a 300 weight fleece or put the Nomad on. If in the mountains I will often start the day and the ascent with just the shell and merino with the fleece in my pack and put it on when I get to the top.
In my book dry means dry, not damp from sweat or wet from leakage. It is possible to stay that way in the worst weather but you can't stint on the quality of the gear. I don't like wearing heavy gear either, whether is starts heavy or gets that way when it gets saturated. It just encourages heat loss.
Water transmits body heat 30 times faster than air. Whilst you can generally put up with being damp/wet for 6 hours on the hill because your active and generating heat it's not comfortable. If something goes wrong and you have to be static for a prolonged period or worse overnight you could get into serious trouble in wet/damp gear. If you can stay completely dry you have won half the battle.
I want to try the Kuiu gear next. Everyone speaks very highly of it and the few pieces I have seen are very well made. The fabric is from Toray in Japan and is reputed to be as good as Gore Tex. However, I can't really get my head around their cammo patterns which are all designed for west coast US hunting rather than the green of the UK landscape.
As they are all shells they have no insulation and are all highly breathable. Merino underwear from Iceabreaker next to skin and insulated as required with fleece middle layer. I run 100 weight fleece for autumn and if it's really cold, like on the hinds, 200 weight fleece. If in a high seat in the cold I go with a 300 weight fleece or put the Nomad on. If in the mountains I will often start the day and the ascent with just the shell and merino with the fleece in my pack and put it on when I get to the top.
In my book dry means dry, not damp from sweat or wet from leakage. It is possible to stay that way in the worst weather but you can't stint on the quality of the gear. I don't like wearing heavy gear either, whether is starts heavy or gets that way when it gets saturated. It just encourages heat loss.
Water transmits body heat 30 times faster than air. Whilst you can generally put up with being damp/wet for 6 hours on the hill because your active and generating heat it's not comfortable. If something goes wrong and you have to be static for a prolonged period or worse overnight you could get into serious trouble in wet/damp gear. If you can stay completely dry you have won half the battle.
I have a nomad a jacket not the smock a nice warm jacket for cold weather not 100% waterproof but holds out a lot before it leaks through ,over priced for sure but I didn't buy it, like it a lot but don't think I would have one if I had to buy it.
Have a few smocks a Game smock not at all waterproof but good in Cold windy conditions, a Rivers Edge which is an exact copy of the Ridgeline Monsoon had it for five years and only worn it twice its just far to warm for active stalking,and a Ridgeline Pintail this is my go to jacket for most things lightweight enough for active sta!king and pretty much windproof if hanging around will let in water eventually but it takes a while , I didn't buy the Pintail either it came my way courtesy of the SD supporters draw.
Some of the Italian stuff is really good if you can find it Riserva or Trabaldo .
The most waterproof jacket I have is a Beretta .
Have a few smocks a Game smock not at all waterproof but good in Cold windy conditions, a Rivers Edge which is an exact copy of the Ridgeline Monsoon had it for five years and only worn it twice its just far to warm for active stalking,and a Ridgeline Pintail this is my go to jacket for most things lightweight enough for active sta!king and pretty much windproof if hanging around will let in water eventually but it takes a while , I didn't buy the Pintail either it came my way courtesy of the SD supporters draw.
Some of the Italian stuff is really good if you can find it Riserva or Trabaldo .
The most waterproof jacket I have is a Beretta .
gelert
Well-Known Member
I have owned the smock for approximately 6 years,and has been my main stalking jacket.Held up to most if not the worst weather.Sadly just before Christmas while out foxing in a torrential rain I was **** wet through, soaking to be exact.
So for £50 a year it doesn't seem to bad an investment.
When it gets wet, the water collects at the bottom of the smock, leaving you with a very wet floor, or a damp jacket to use the following day.In my experience, the gentleman who sells them Ie direct from Nomad really need some after sales lessons.
As I have found, buying from a private shop is much easier to deal with than the man himself if there's an issue as his customer service is non existent, considering they cost as much as they do.
I havnt bought another one to replace the old faithful, instead I have tried the Stoney Creek Long Bush Coat, as the review are very good and at £250 seem good value.
So for £50 a year it doesn't seem to bad an investment.
When it gets wet, the water collects at the bottom of the smock, leaving you with a very wet floor, or a damp jacket to use the following day.In my experience, the gentleman who sells them Ie direct from Nomad really need some after sales lessons.
As I have found, buying from a private shop is much easier to deal with than the man himself if there's an issue as his customer service is non existent, considering they cost as much as they do.
I havnt bought another one to replace the old faithful, instead I have tried the Stoney Creek Long Bush Coat, as the review are very good and at £250 seem good value.
Thanks Nigel for your reply. Apologies for the delay in replying. Your answer has been excellent. I think I will look at a hard shell coat and carry it for the rain.
Quad bike
Like everyone else, I've had everything over the years working 6.5 days a week outdoors regardless of weather.
As glyn says, layers are key, usually I have two waterproofs on top if it's really really bad and cold enough for it. Some of the cheap Macs are the best and easy to replace.
For the money, deerhunter has always been a very sage bet except for the last 5 years where its all got a bit gadgety. The old deerhubter stuff was much simpler. and
My most favourite stuff that genuinely is waterproof is the kaiwaka stuff. I have had the smock for nearly 3 years and it still keeps me dry and puts up with fencing and other use and abuse.
As glyn says, layers are key, usually I have two waterproofs on top if it's really really bad and cold enough for it. Some of the cheap Macs are the best and easy to replace.
For the money, deerhunter has always been a very sage bet except for the last 5 years where its all got a bit gadgety. The old deerhubter stuff was much simpler. and
My most favourite stuff that genuinely is waterproof is the kaiwaka stuff. I have had the smock for nearly 3 years and it still keeps me dry and puts up with fencing and other use and abuse.
243varmint
Well-Known Member
Layering. That's what it's about.
I love the Swazi gear. I've got tops, hoodie and a Tahr XP.
They're good at what they do and customer service is very good
They don't do an all in one garment, they use the layering system.
They do a Kagool in the same fabric as the Tahr XP. They also do a lightweight outer shell.
Buy direct from them. It is still cheaper to do it that way.
I can't comment on their trousers as yet. Their socks are good,,
Absolutely brilliant. Had a few. Bought the Nomad Grampian Stealth All Rounder coat at last years Northern Shooting show along with the shooting waistcoat. Never had them on as lost weight when I was ill so 4 st lighter. I would highly recommend them
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