Non Toxic advice?

[Heym SR20]

depends what you compare of course but less weight for a given size is not as effective at holding energy. I shoot 100 TTSX at 3200 fps from the 260 rem and can tell you its hits a wall about 250 and drops a little more than a 100 grain 243 lead bullet . But a do really like how these TTSX work and would go back , none the less they are good to 400 when conditions play nice and still expand through its obviously less than they will at 200 yards . Weight retention has always been 100% unless i loose one of the petals at any range and you dont get that with lead plus is no toxic fragments sprayed through the meat and less jelly shoulders .

I suspect a 120 gn 6.5mm TTX - if they make such a thing would probably be more like the 100gn 243 in terms of drops etc - it would be a longer bullet thus ballistically similar. Ballistics are due to drag on the bullet and that is more down to shape than weight. However if you take two identical shaped bullets, but one of copper / lead, the other copper, and launch at identical velocities, the heavier one will start with and keep more energy and thus retain velocity a little better.

A 100gn 6.5mm non toxic bullet will be quite a short for calibre so will be aerodynamically less efficient and whilst starting fast will loose velocity and then fall off a cliff. Same with say a 55gn 223 bullet or 70gn 243, or a 110gn out of a 300 win mag. Later is really flat to 300 but falls off by 400.

But like you I think the terminal ballistics and minimal carcass damage of monolithics far outweighs any theoretical drawbacks of slightly less weight and a little more (1/2 or 1”) drop at the outer limits of normal stalking ranges.

 

[Bowland blades]

I suspect a 120 gn 6.5mm TTX - if they make such a thing would probably be more like the 100gn 243 in terms of drops etc - it would be a longer bullet thus ballistically similar. Ballistics are due to drag on the bullet and that is more down to shape than weight. However if you take two identical shaped bullets, but one of copper / lead, the other copper, and launch at identical velocities, the heavier one will start with and keep more energy and thus retain velocity a little better.

A 100gn 6.5mm non toxic bullet will be quite a short for calibre so will be aerodynamically less efficient and whilst starting fast will loose velocity and then fall off a cliff. Same with say a 55gn 223 bullet or 70gn 243, or a 110gn out of a 300 win mag. Later is really flat to 300 but falls off by 400.

But like you I think the terminal ballistics and minimal carcass damage of monolithics far outweighs any theoretical drawbacks of slightly less weight and a little more (1/2 or 1”) drop at the outer limits of normal stalking ranges.

100 grain TTSX is quite long because copper is a lot lighter in weight . i have also used quite a lot of the 120 TTSX they are very much my second choice , I have only used the 120 version on stags the 100 i have shot CWD, Roe, Muntjac, Stags & hinds . The only time i had anything like a problem was the third of three stags in a group that literally looked like something was wrong wandering about , then running hard and long before remembering it was supposed to be dead ( it happens just pumped up after seeing his buddies fall perhaps?)
I dont really care about drops much , you should never miss or make a bad shot trajectory wise on large deer because its pretty easy , high winds and hurried shots are definitely the danger zone.
The 100 grain is great on the smallest and largest of uk deer and minium recoil so you see the strikes and get quicker recovery for another . just my way and choice though

 

[wildfowler.250]

Interesting replies. I honestly hadn’t considered the energy of the bullets falling off faster. But then folk do seem to be shooting lighter for calibres to get speed an expansion.

 

[wildfowler.250]

It doesn’t really matter what calibre you shoot, you are going to be dropping somewhere between 8 and 18 inches in 300 yards, I know my 270 drops 12 inches at 300 m, zeroed 1 inch high at 100 once you know that crack on

Interestingly, do you hold over at 300 or dial in?

 

[Leec6.5]

Interestingly, do you hold over at 300 or dial in?

Whats dial??

Never dialed a scope in my life, always hold over, but I have to say I’d rather shoot him at 50 yards instead of 350 yards, but I know what I’m doing if I have to!

I’ve shot enough now that I am more than confident with estimating the drop of more bullet on whatever animal, I decide to shoot at whatever range I need to shoot!

But for me, personally, 1 inch high 100 with my 270 or my 7 x 57 it’s pretty much 1 inch high at 100 meters or yards either or makes little difference, flat out 200+ don’t even have to think

 

[Dunwaters]

It doesn’t really matter what calibre you shoot, you are going to be dropping somewhere between 8 and 18 inches in 300 yards, I know my 270 drops 12 inches at 300 m, zeroed 1 inch high at 100 once you know that crack on.

 

[Dunwaters]

It doesn’t really matter what calibre you shoot, you are going to be dropping somewhere between 8 and 18 inches in 300 yards, I know my 270 drops 12 inches at 300 m, zeroed 1 inch high at 100 once you know that crack on

It’d really help matters if you standardised your units.
Given a normal lead load zeroed at 100yds your drops at 300yds are correct, which is why you zero high at 100, 2” puts you on again at about 200, 3” at that distance puts you “on” again at 270yds or so and 2-4” low at 300 from memory.
300M is about 330yds but you seem to have zeroed 1” high 100yds?
We can agree on this tho’ know your zero, know your range and know your drops.
Do that and you get far fewer surprises at any range.

 

[Heym SR20]

100 grain TTSX is quite long because copper is a lot lighter in weight . i have also used quite a lot of the 120 TTSX they are very much my second choice , I have only used the 120 version on stags the 100 i have shot CWD, Roe, Muntjac, Stags & hinds . The only time i had anything like a problem was the third of three stags in a group that literally looked like something was wrong wandering about , then running hard and long before remembering it was supposed to be dead ( it happens just pumped up after seeing his buddies fall perhaps?)
I dont really care about drops much , you should never miss or make a bad shot trajectory wise on large deer because its pretty easy , high winds and hurried shots are definitely the danger zone.
The 100 grain is great on the smallest and largest of uk deer and minium recoil so you see the strikes and get quicker recovery for another . just my way and choice though

Yup, surprising how long and far a deer even with a perfect shot and heart / lungs destroyed can stay on its feet.

I once shot a Red stag three times with a 7mm. All 3 bullets (RWS Lead) went through heart and lungs but it just stood there swaying. Put a fourth in the head which dropped it.

 

[Leec6.5]

It’d really help matters if you standardised your units.
Given a normal lead load zeroed at 100yds your drops at 300yds are correct, which is why you zero high at 100, 2” puts you on again at about 200, 3” at that distance puts you “on” again at 270yds or so and 2-4” low at 300 from memory.
300M is about 330yds but you seem to have zeroed 1” high 100yds?
We can agree on this tho’ know your zero, know your range and know your drops.
Do that and you get far fewer surprises at any range.

Bloody horlicks m or yds makes naff all difference

 

[wildfowler.250]

Whats dial??

Never dialed a scope in my life, always hold over, but I have to say I’d rather shoot him at 50 yards instead of 350 yards, but I know what I’m doing if I have to!

I’ve shot enough now that I am more than confident with estimating the drop of more bullet on whatever animal, I decide to shoot at whatever range I need to shoot!

But for me, personally, 1 inch high 100 with my 270 or my 7 x 57 it’s pretty much 1 inch high at 100 meters or yards either or makes little difference, flat out 200+ don’t even have to think

Good to see I’m not the only one then. Seems to be very old fashioned these days

 

[Brave Echo Niner]

Bloody horlicks m or yds makes naff all difference

300 yards (274m) = 10.7” drop
300 metres = 14.6” drop

Using a 150 grain .30 Virtus bullet at 2790 FPS and a trued drop curve. (Standard stalking load with a 20” barrel .308)

5” difference on a Roe is a significant difference, so I beg to differ that there is “naff all difference” when pushing the range a bit further.

Ben

 

[Dunwaters]

Bloody horlicks m or yds makes naff all difference

It actually does make quite a difference and the further out you go the more difference it makes.
Theres also the strong probability that you’ll confuse a Millennial or generation X or Z person to the extent that they’ll burst into tears and have to retreat to a safe place for comfort and group hugs.
On a practical note, try getting a Leupold scope ( Imperial 1/4” at 100yds clicks) mounted on a Finnish Moisin Nagant handled by a Swede zeroed at 100M.
You convert 1/4” clicks to Cms, add 10% for the extra distance, try to explain what you’re doing to the shooter, and note the complete lack of comprehension as you blithely skip between inches, yards, Cms, MOA and Cms to click ratios at both 100yds and 100M.
You quickly give up trying to explain and do it yourself by eye while theres still some ammo left.
Swarovski have both values on the turret so make mental note to bring your own scope next time.

 

[wildfowler.250]

It actually does make quite a difference and the further out you go the more difference it makes.
Theres also the strong probability that you’ll confuse a Millennial or generation X or Z person to the extent that they’ll burst into tears and have to retreat to a safe place for comfort and group hugs.
On a practical note, try getting a Leupold scope ( Imperial 1/4” at 100yds clicks) mounted on a Finnish Moisin Nagant handled by a Swede zeroed at 100M.
You convert 1/4” clicks to Cms, add 10% for the extra distance, try to explain what you’re doing to the shooter, and note the complete lack of comprehension as you blithely skip between inches, yards, Cms, MOA and Cms to click ratios at both 100yds and 100M.
You quickly give up trying to explain and do it yourself by eye while theres still some ammo left.
Swarovski have both values on the turret so make mental note to bring your own scope next time.

You had me until 10% I assume that’s the difference between 100 yards and metres

 

[Leec6.5]

I have scopes that are 1/4 and cm and guess what, 1” high is 1” high regardless of the click value!

The trajectory between my 7x57 and 270 is give or take a fag paper the same.

Apologies for my rustic old fashioned way of thinking, but it works!

 

[Dunwaters]

I have scopes that are 1/4 and cm and guess what, 1” high is 1” high regardless of the click value!

The trajectory between my 7x57 and 270 is give or take a fag paper the same.

Apologies for my rustic old fashioned way of thinking, but it works!

It is, but but is that plus 1“ at 100 Yds or 100M?
And is your ciggy paper an American Raw or a Euro Rizla?
You have to be specific.
Did I mention that theres mil radians out there too? This shite matters!

 

[Dunwaters]

Strange, the Mammy on this site wont let you say” sh1t” as a word, but swallows “shite” like a lamb with a bottle.
She must be Irish.

 

[RM100]

We tried some SandB in a creedmore - after 2 boxes gave up
Back to lead and back to within inch
The copper ones were literally all over with the odd one not even hitting the paper - most odd