NRA And Handloading

Harry mac

Well-Known Member
I just had link to a questionaire e-mailed to me from the NRA. The questionaire is about handloading.
It asks questions such as, "Where did you learn to reload?", "Do you reload for others?", Does your club offer any kind of reloading course?", amongst others.
I hope I'm just being paranoid, but I am always suspicious of such things,and ready to think the worst.
Is the UK NRA about to shoot itself, and the sport of rifle shooting, in the foot by bringing in restrictions on the use of reloaded ammunition on Bisley ranges?
I think I see a money spinning qualification course coming, with a "Reloading Competency Card" having to be shown before you're allowed to use reloads on Bisley (and maybe even all MoD ranges).
 
I understand it’s driven by the MoD being rather concerned as there have been 3 rather serious incidents in the past 12 months
What he said - MOD are a little 'twitchy' about the frequency of these incidents. NRA are, as I understand it, looking to make sure there is a suitable (by which I mean acceptable to the MOD) process defined & followed to allow those of us who hand load to continue to use that ammunition on MOD ranges - the alternative being that only factory ammo will be permitted. Yes, that will doubtless mean some sort of competency 'test' but I'd rather do that & be allowed to continue using hand loads than have to curtail my shooting due to a lack of available ammunition - I shoot rifles chambered for cartridges neither the NRA or Fultons sell & which have to be ordered in specially, not to mention the additional cost it would bring.
 
Competency test, who would run such a test nationally and at what price?
3 incidents in 12months, is that justification for such a test? And no guarantee such a test would stop them.
then what ban handloads or mandatory proof house testing of homeloads?

Accidents happen that is life, which is why insurance was invented.
 
I just had link to a questionaire e-mailed to me from the NRA. The questionaire is about handloading.
It asks questions such as, "Where did you learn to reload?", "Do you reload for others?", Does your club offer any kind of reloading course?", amongst others.
I hope I'm just being paranoid, but I am always suspicious of such things,and ready to think the worst.
Is the UK NRA about to shoot itself, and the sport of rifle shooting, in the foot by bringing in restrictions on the use of reloaded ammunition on Bisley ranges?
I think I see a money spinning qualification course coming, with a "Reloading Competency Card" having to be shown before you're allowed to use reloads on Bisley (and maybe even all MoD ranges).
Prob a long term plan of restrictions or record keeping proving whats made is for yourself especially as Wildcat cant supply individual components anymore. Its all change to come I think. Dont fill it in, I didnt.
 
Prob a long term plan of restrictions or record keeping proving whats made is for yourself especially as Wildcat cant supply individual components anymore. Its all change to come I think. Dont fill it in, I didnt.
How are the two linked? restrictions or record keeping vs wildcat not supplying individual components anymore.
 
I struggle to imagine how you'd do any test other than a verbal or maybe written / multiple guess which would be so generic as to be useless.

My thoughts are that it will most likely be a question of doing an approved course
 
I struggle to imagine how you'd do any test other than a verbal or maybe written / multiple guess which would be so generic as to be useless.

My thoughts are that it will most likely be a question of doing an approved course

approved by who, oh let me guess NRA, more empire building, do we not have enough hops to jump through?

what a nanny country we are becoming.
 
approved by who, oh let me guess NRA, more empire building, do we not have enough hops to jump through?

what a nanny country we are becoming.
I get you, it wouldn't be my choice either. The problem is the NRA has the MoD as a landlord so the MoD tend to call the shots...

My hope is that the NRA can come up with something sensible rather than the dogs dinner that was the certification scheme...

Scrummy
 
Wasn't it the NRA selling dodgy 308 ammo last year that blew up a few rifles at bisley.

Infact I swear I saw them selling said ammo of cheap with a disclaimer!

That's an interesting case which moreover underlines how difficult any regulation would be.

The ammunition wasn't 'dodgy' at all - it conformed exactly to CIP 308 Win specs. The 'dodgy' bit is that most TR rifles don't conform to 308 Win specs in that they have 'tight' bores, a hangover from the days when they were expected to perform with 7.62 military ammunition and undersize bullets. Whilst today's TR barrels aren't specced anything like as undersize as was once the case, they remain a thou' or two tight on the bore dia. and a few tenths of a thou' likewise on groove diameter. (Why TR rifles haven't been specified at SAAMI levels for years, I simply don't understand. It's not just us and the British Commonwealth TR shooting countries, but the top US 'Palma' shooters also use barrels with similar or same dimensions. US 'any ammo' sling shooters mostly use standard spec blanks however, so the handloaders are working to SAAMI/CIP regulations; national teams break them and need underloaded ammo.)

The NRA contract with RUAG for the RWS ammo loaded with the older 155gn 308 Sierra MK (p/n 2155) was extremely tightly specified to give maximum CIP pressures in such barrels. It was actually underloaded for CIP/SAAMI spec (0.300/0.3080") dimensioned barrels. This worked fine for a couple of years, but then for some reason or other RUAG forgot this or just plain cocked it up and loaded a year's worth at full CIP pressures. Results - over-pressures in new TR rifle barrels, or those at the small end of the tolerance range. The NRA then returned the ammo as 'out of spec', ie out of their contract spec. On its return, RUAG retested the ammo in a CIP-spec test barrel (0.300/0.3080) and found it was 'within CIP', although one imagines by not a lot. It then unpackaged all the returned cartridges and repackaged them in standard 308 Win Sierra MK match ammo boxes and put them back into the market, some or all ending up here. This of course caused all sorts of problems as people inevitably fired them in 'tight-barrel' 308 TR rifles, so the NRA had to put safety warnings out about its use.

All this shows is that when peak chamber pressures are at or close to maximum, relatively small firearm / chamber changes can affect results one way or another. Take 223 Rem as an example. The standard SAAMI 223 Rem chamber has a 25 thou' length throat (ie 'freebore') and 3-degree leade angle. The popular Wylde' match chamber used in nearly all straight-pull 223s by the CSR crowd among others, has a 62-70 thou' 'freebore' and much longer /gentler leade with a 1.2 to1.5-degree angle depending on chamber variant. The FTR shooters using the 223 mostly have chambers cut with the PT&G '223 Rem ISSF' reamer that produces 169 thou' 'freebore' and the users handload 80-90gn bullets also specifying one turn in seven-inch rifling twist pitch. My first long-range 223 F-Class rifle had a custom chamber with over 200 thou' 'freebore' that produced an optimal seating position for the 90gn Berger VLD and a COAL of c. 2.79" compared to the SAAMI 223 maximum spec of 2.26". A perfectly safe maximum charge for a say 69gn or 80gn SMK in a Wylde chamber is way over that quoted in handloading manuals or online data because the manufacturers' loads are based on test barrels conforming exactly to the SAAMI 223 Rem specs.

Then there is the little matter of just what is a maximum book load? Taking five current manuals' loads data for 223 Rem including Hodgdon's own figures, the maximum charge for H. VarGet under the 77gn SMK seated to 2.26" vary by 2.9gn from lowest to highest. 2.9gn is a lot in any cartridge, but in 223 Rem with this bullet, it is MASSIVE! A full grain of powder changes Pmax by c.5,000 psi in this combination in Winchester or Remington brass!

As with so many things, everything hangs on the individual handloader's knowledge, expertise, and general taking care / competence. If the MoD insist on 100% assurance, we'll end up with some sort of training / testing regulatory regime. We all know just how well that works don't we as every vehicle driver has to be trained / tested / licensed and of course they all drive faultlessly and expertly don't they?
 
Having seen the aftermath of the most recent hand loading failure I think something needs to be done. I’ve never seen a rifle in as many bits.

why are we always so keen to inflict on ourselves more bureaucracy? accidents happen, somebody made an error but what business is it of others? there but my the grace of god go I.
 
I am quite certain those with handloaded ammunition 'issues' at Bisley did not work up load properly.

However, in the survey supplied I stated I have only ever witnessed issues caused by ISSUE ammunition by the NRA in their events.
 
I am quite certain those with handloaded ammunition 'issues' at Bisley did not work up load properly.

It can result from all sorts of incompetence including that. However, carelessly using the wrong powder is very common in such cases. The simple and basic rules of only having one powder on the bench in any loading session -and double-checking it is the correct grade as per the data source - are it seems frequently ignored. A linked cause that has been a common theme in several NRA blow-up investigations is a modest amount of powder from a previous loading session hidden at the bottom of a powder measure body so that the first charge thrown is a mixture of the two lots - bad news if the previous session used a much faster burning powder.

It just takes a second's carelessness to misread the powder bottle label with a quick glance to cause disaster. Loading 44gn Viht N340 vice N140 or N540 in 308 Win say, will really ruin your day! I really am glad that at last Viht is labelling its products with the names now clearly emphasised in large bold print. Look at the various label generations in the pic. The right-hand label (N565) dates from as recently as three years ago and is an abomination compared to the new (as per N555) design on the left.
 

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why are we always so keen to inflict on ourselves more bureaucracy? accidents happen, somebody made an error but what business is it of others? there but my the grace of god go I.
The probable crux of the matter is if your hand loaded ammunition in your rifle disintegrates, the person who may be next to you is injured.
 
The probable crux of the matter is if your hand loaded ammunition in your rifle disintegrates, the person who may be next to you is injured.
So how many times has a bystander been injured in reality? What’s the risk assessment look like? How high is the probability of bystander injury. Then how does that all compare with commercial ammunition?
 
It can result from all sorts of incompetence including that. However, carelessly using the wrong powder is very common in such cases.

think incompetence is a bit harsh, carelessly or distracted yes, surly nobody would intentionally due to lack of skill aim to produce dangers ammunition.
 
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