Optics Guarantees?

[andyk]

I tend to agree with you @Scapegoat, having worked in retail some years ago. The number of things which spontaneously disassembled themselves or broke was staggering, it was though they had both a life of their own and suicidal tendencies.

However, some brands do sell their premium tag on the fact that they will sort things out for you. I have a number of Schmidt scopes, including one I just bought second hand. One of the reasons I will buy a second hand Schmidt is because they make a point of saying that they will always keep parts to repair their scopes for at least 30 years from manufacture. That way, I know the worst case scenario is that I have to pay Schmidt to fix the scope but it won't ever be the case that I have simply bought an expensive paper weight as might be the case with others.

Where a brand sells on that strength, I would expect it to be honoured. I guess I would also hope that the manufacturer doesn't see it as an opportunity to make a tidy profit from fixing it. I'm happy to pay to cover their costs and a bit of profit but would feel a little hard done by if, having told you 'don't worry, we'll always be willing to fix it' they then make it so expensive that you decide the offer isn't really as good as it seemed.

Of course, if its abused rather than used, it's fair for them to make that point.

 

[TH4]

I have had some very positive outcomes with zeiss lately although I must admit that a few years ago their customer service was very poor.
I sent in a 35 year old 6x42 scope as it was losing zero and it came back fully refurbished FOC the same with a pair of binoculars that were even older.

 

[marrajack]

I must be in a minority. I have had fantastic service from Ziess, even on second hand kit . I had some bins and ended up being charged a fair bit of cash by Swaro when they had lost correlation I bought them ex demo - totally unmarked but they said I had dropped them - I hadn’t I was that mad I paid for fixing them traded them in at a loss

 

[Selous]

This is reassuring as I’ve just noticed a black speck in my Diavari

 

[Klenchblaize]

What is it with us as consumers when we expect a company to replace, without quibble any worn out or knackered item we send them?

A pair of cheap binos which were the "truck pair" just fell apart on their own did they? Or were they simply left in the glove box or on the dash to rattle about until the inevitable happened, and that somehow becomes the manufacturer's problem?

I regularly see the same with boots. People post a picture of a pair of boots that have clearly been worn for several months of hard graft without even a hint of wax or grease/conditioner, scuffed to buggery and then dried out on a radiator and then folk complain that they aren't waterproof, expecting Meindl or whoever to replace the without asking questions. .

Spend good money on good kit, and take the responsibility to look after it properly. Surprisingly, manufacturer's are in business to make money. A business model where a premium product could be replaced FOC under every single circumstance won't last very long.

As for warranties. Buy the product from a recognised dealer and retain the proof of sale and the box. Most can be registered online in a matter of minutes for the full or in some cases extended and transferable warranty. If you then sell it on the new buyer can be assured of any warranty remaining.

Similarly, if you buy used optics, research the brand and how they honour warranties. Find a buyer who has registered the warranty (if it's transferable) and ask for proof so you can benefit should it go wrong.

Bang on the money! 101% correct! So well observed!

So many SD members looking for scapegoats when it comes to their poor TLC and product maintenance skills.

K

 

[ion]

I was charged to refurbish a pair of Swarovski SLC 8 x56 about 15 years ago. If memory serves me right it was stated as a bald fact that I had to pay. On the other hand lenses were repolished, covering replaced, regassed etc. Wicklow granite is not kind to optics!
My late 80's 6 X 42 Zeiss were refurbished FOC under lifetime guarantee. And it definitely seemed to be a matter of pride to Zeiss that they drew my attention to this.

 

[Sprocker101]

What is it with us as consumers when we expect a company to replace, without quibble any worn out or knackered item we send them?

A pair of cheap binos which were the "truck pair" just fell apart on their own did they? Or were they simply left in the glove box or on the dash to rattle about until the inevitable happened, and that somehow becomes the manufacturer's problem?

I regularly see the same with boots. People post a picture of a pair of boots that have clearly been worn for several months of hard graft without even a hint of wax or grease/conditioner, scuffed to buggery and then dried out on a radiator and then folk complain that they aren't waterproof, expecting Meindl or whoever to replace the without asking questions. .

Spend good money on good kit, and take the responsibility to look after it properly. Surprisingly, manufacturer's are in business to make money. A business model where a premium product could be replaced FOC under every single circumstance won't last very long.

As for warranties. Buy the product from a recognised dealer and retain the proof of sale and the box. Most can be registered online in a matter of minutes for the full or in some cases extended and transferable warranty. If you then sell it on the new buyer can be assured of any warranty remaining.

Similarly, if you buy used optics, research the brand and how they honour warranties. Find a buyer who has registered the warranty (if it's transferable) and ask for proof so you can benefit should it

Said pair of binos were hardly used and stayed in the truck no more than any other of my items( none of which have fallen apart) ie the big box of stalking items which is removed after a stalking trip.

I don’t expect things to last forever, just giving my experience with customer service
I don’t expect things to last forever, just giving my experience with customer service

 

[Sambarrmann]

I use and collect old reticle-movement scopes because of their intrinsic stability (not having a mini-me scope spring-suspended inside). Some of them like Pecar had long warranties but rarely needed them, but others with friction turret adjustments could seize up if not moved occasionally. The worst I've found have been Swarovski but have also had trouble with S&B and Hertel & Reuss. Swarovski, tell me they no longer keep parts for or service the old Habicht models. My old Kahles Helia Super 27 fogged up in 2001 after 21 years and it cost me $A540 to send it back to Austria to be refurbished. I like Nickels for their optics and mechanical strength but they may have brittle lens cement and since the original makers have gone for a Burton getting them fixed requires someone else. I have no idea whether Zeiss/Hensoldt service their old scopes - and have had no need to find out, so far.

 

[devon deer stalker]

Update, 22 days since posting, left the UK on 6th May.....and that's the last I have heard.
S&B state they believe customs have it.
I rang Royal Mail, couldn't speak to a person, automated which eventually led to call being terminated.
Rang the German post courier, number supplied by RM website, German lady answered, only spoke German, but I guessed she was transferring me....result...no, after 5 minutes they cut me off.
So, my friend is coming to Devon next week, his wife is German, hopefully at least I can get some answers
Cheers
Richard

 

[Stalker-of-the-deer]

my zeiss victory diavari went wrong, I was the second owner. the asv turret came off in my hand, the glue holding the pinion gear to the elevation screw failed. so it eventually came loose.

phoned zeiss up and they said no problem send it to east coast binocular repair (approved fixeruppers)

re gassed cleaned internaly and fixed free of charge. sent on the Monday recived on the Friday.

can't get much better than that.

 

[Sambarrmann]

Yes, great service but at the price of those scopes I'd have expected more than glue holding it together. Still, you know my position: when Zeiss surrendered to image-movement about 1975, they really threw in the integrity towel.

 

[Drum123]

I was suprised to read the comment above regarding Zeiss having poor after service (although a comment from 2009), being in the Alpha product range.

We hear often on here about the excellent service from Swarovski and S&B, both companies we hear referred to as Alpha products and the associated Alpha price when purchasing.

What about what would be called as the next level down the chain, the Nightforce, IOR, Minox etc. Do the offer the same no quibble, no charge or very minimal charge guarantee or repairs even on products years old?

I sent back an nf nsx 5.5 - 22 x56 to Nightforce,via the sportsman guncentre.The tracking was all over the place.I was very pleased with both parties and how they dealt with the problem.Got the scope back in as new condition.I did however get a little note saying nightforce couldnt find a fault but i supppose thats allows them to carry on with the claim that theyve never had a scope fail.
Also had similar sending a scope back to IOR via optics warehouse.Both times i was charged postage.Neither scope was bought new by me.Some companies do still stand by their products.

 

[Heym SR20]

Update, 22 days since posting, left the UK on 6th May.....and that's the last I have heard.
S&B state they believe customs have it.
I rang Royal Mail, couldn't speak to a person, automated which eventually led to call being terminated.
Rang the German post courier, number supplied by RM website, German lady answered, only spoke German, but I guessed she was transferring me....result...no, after 5 minutes they cut me off.
So, my friend is coming to Devon next week, his wife is German, hopefully at least I can get some answers
Cheers
Richard

I spoke with Swarovski UK re repair of a Scope. They said send the scope to them in the UK. They then a shipment to Swarovski Austria and deal with all the export and import paperwork as it is a pain in the arse to get correct.

I suspect you need to fill it in using the correct font for way the moon, sun and tides are all aligned together with knowledge of the AI systems used to select the random quota of parcels that they will impose handling fees and knowledge of Mrs Bojo’s mood swings.

 

[devon deer stalker]

I spoke with Swarovski UK re repair of a Scope. They said send the scope to them in the UK. They then a shipment to Swarovski Austria and deal with all the export and import paperwork as it is a pain in the arse to get correct.

I suspect you need to fill it in using the correct font for way the moon, sun and tides are all aligned together with knowledge of the AI systems used to select the random quota of parcels that they will impose handling fees and knowledge of Mrs Bojo’s mood swings.

Well, it sat in customs for 3 weeks, although I had completed the forms sent to me by S&B but my MAC changed the format, so I emailed back the forms in total ignorance of the fact the form had been changed so couldn't be used to collect from scope from customs in Germany by S&B, so after a week they emailed me, informed me what had happened, requested the form again, so I emailed the form again, this time in the correct format, chased after another week, they said still sat in customs and to send the form again!, this time I sent in pdf format, within a week they collected it, within another week they came back to me, see below.

Just contact S&B and it will be sorted great to deal with.

This is the reply:
'The 30-year warranty was always split into a 5-year full warranty and 25 years on material costs incurred.
Your riflescope has a defective reversing system. We will only charge you for the labor costs incurred here. Any material costs incurred will continue to be borne by Schmidt & Bender.'

That is fine by me, I have had almost 25 years of use out of that scope, and to be honest even when I bought it if they had said only guaranteed for 12 months I still would have bought it, (their scopes are second to none in my opinion) but I, like many, wrongly believe they were warranted for a lifetime/30 years, it's not until you read the small print you realise the above, I think we as consumers are often guilty of that, not reading the small print!

But the price, 340 euros (including postage and packing), that in my opinion is way over the top, factor in import fee's when it gets back to me and I guess not much change out of £350, for what in effect will be a repaired 25 year old scope.

I wouldn't like to guess how many of my clients/friends I have sent in the direction of Schmidt and Bender, will I still do it?
I have to admit yes I would, they are still the best optics out there.
Would I buy a new one?
Probably yes, but at the moment I will continue with what I have.
I have been in the position over the years to compare them with the other top makes, Swarovski comes close, but not close enough.

Cheers

Richard

 

[Klenchblaize]

Well, it sat in customs for 3 weeks, although I had completed the forms sent to me by S&B but my MAC changed the format, so I emailed back the forms in total ignorance of the fact the form had been changed so couldn't be used to collect from scope from customs in Germany by S&B, so after a week they emailed me, informed me what had happened, requested the form again, so I emailed the form again, this time in the correct format, chased after another week, they said still sat in customs and to send the form again!, this time I sent in pdf format, within a week they collected it, within another week they came back to me, see below.

This is the reply:
'The 30-year warranty was always split into a 5-year full warranty and 25 years on material costs incurred.
Your riflescope has a defective reversing system. We will only charge you for the labor costs incurred here. Any material costs incurred will continue to be borne by Schmidt & Bender.'

That is fine by me, I have had almost 25 years of use out of that scope, and to be honest even when I bought it if they had said only guaranteed for 12 months I still would have bought it, (their scopes are second to none in my opinion) but I, like many, wrongly believe they were warranted for a lifetime/30 years, it's not until you read the small print you realise the above, I think we as consumers are often guilty of that, not reading the small print!

But the price, 340 euros (including postage and packing), that in my opinion is way over the top, factor in import fee's when it gets back to me and I guess not much change out of £350, for what in effect will be a repaired 25 year old scope.

I wouldn't like to guess how many of my clients/friends I have sent in the direction of Schmidt and Bender, will I still do it?
I have to admit yes I would, they are still the best optics out there.
Would I buy a new one?
Probably yes, but at the moment I will continue with what I have.

Cheers

Richard

Its the "labour costs" and now P&P/paperwork that's the killer. It was c€300 for a simple S&B reticle change when last I enquired and that was pre BREXIT!

K

 

[devon deer stalker]

Its the "labour costs" and now P&P/paperwork that's the killer. It was c€300 for a simple S&B reticle change when last I enquired.

K

I guess it's like a car, take it to your local garage and get charged £40/hour, take it to a main dealer and it's £125/hour
I have no idea of what is involved but in my simple mind, an hour to disassemble an hour to fix and another hour to reassemble.

Cheers

Richard

 

[Klenchblaize]

I guess it's like a car, take it to your local garage and get charged £40/hour, take it to a main dealer and it's £125/hour
I have no idea of what is involved but in my simple mind, an hour to disassemble an hour to fix and another hour to reassemble.

Cheers

Richard

And who knows how many days to clear Customs!

K

 

[NullMac]

However, some brands do sell their premium tag on the fact that they will sort things out for you.

Yes they do.

Some do i.e Kahles for me. Excellent service.

Others don't, and need reminded of the Consumer Rights Act being statute and that their Warranty/Guarantee cannot limit your legal rights. Much as they would like it to.

 

[Sambarrmann]

"Your riflescope has a defective reversing system..."
Of course it has! That is the Achilles heel of almost all scopes now since keeping the reticle constantly centred means the erector set is suspended on spring(s) to bounce around inside the scope. The one real advantage of this cursed set-up is that when it does stuff up it should be easily removed from the ocular end and replaced.

 

[Klenchblaize]

"Your riflescope has a defective reversing system..."
Of course it has! That is the Achilles heel of almost all scopes now since keeping the reticle constantly centred means the erector set is suspended on spring(s) to bounce around inside the scope. The one real advantage of this cursed set-up is that when it does stuff up it should be easily removed from the ocular end and replaced.

You’ll get name for yourself if you keep up the rail against modern scope mechanics!

K