8x57
Distinguished Member
JH83 makes some very valid points but I think he was thinking of the current situation with obtaining trained hunter/ food hygiene rather than how it used to be when you obtained it by doing DSC1.
PDS Certificates
- Thread starter Stalker62
- Start date
Since this was mentioned so often, I now wonder how many stalkers start selling meat to dealers once they gain experience? 
I earn good money on my existing job and earning money by stalking will be a significant financial loss for me. So, I see stalking only as a hobby.
Or it often becomes a strong passion that many pack up from their normal jobs and do stalking as a profession? If it is then I had better give it up right now - I want to earn even more money, not less
I earn good money on my existing job and earning money by stalking will be a significant financial loss for me. So, I see stalking only as a hobby.
Or it often becomes a strong passion that many pack up from their normal jobs and do stalking as a profession? If it is then I had better give it up right now - I want to earn even more money, not less
There's members of this site who shoot 3-4 deer per year, and there's members of this site who shoot 30-40 deer per year, and there's members of this site who shoot 300-400 deer per year. For some, access to a game dealer is just a convenient way of shifting a small surplus and maybe helping cover the cost of their hobby, and for others it's an absolute necessity.Since this was mentioned so often, I now wonder how many stalkers start selling meat to dealers once they gain experience?
I earn good money on my existing job and earning money by stalking will be a significant financial loss for me. So, I see stalking only as a hobby.
Or it often becomes a strong passion that many pack up from their normal jobs and do stalking as a profession? If it is then I had better give it up right now - I want to earn even more money, not less
There's no one size fits all solution, and what one person considers a reasonable price would have a serious financial impact on someone else. But I don't think anyone's under the illusion that selling to a game dealer is ever going to make them much money, whether hobbyist or professional.
We no longer take the meat hygiene course as it's been bumped to level 2. People who took the old DSC1, get "trained hunter" status.
Correct me if I am wrong, the old DSC1 included the meat hygiene course, the new one doesn't, and that is the bit that enables you to enter a carcase into the food chain. Thus with the new version you either have to do a separate course or the DSC2 to get that vital piece of paper to keep the Game Dealer happy.
Yes.
Or do the separate trained hunter course and not do dsc1 or dsc2
Yep you're not too bad really. When are you coming out for a laugh with us again.
Anytime! Always game
Since this was mentioned so often, I now wonder how many stalkers start selling meat to dealers once they gain experience?
I earn good money on my existing job and earning money by stalking will be a significant financial loss for me. So, I see stalking only as a hobby.
Or it often becomes a strong passion that many pack up from their normal jobs and do stalking as a profession? If it is then I had better give it up right now - I want to earn even more money, not less
Full time professionals are relatively thin on the ground but there’s a fair number of us who need to are required to take numbers that we cannot dispose of ourselves as VSS correctly states. If you do decide to get some of your own ground you may end up with carcasses to dispose of so ‘trained hunter status’ will be needed. It certainly isn’t a money spinner but it’s nice to recoup some costs occasionally.
If you intend to shoot the odd munty or roe with Capreolus here or there it’s a moot point. If you decide to go another direction you’ll find yourself sitting a DSC1 in short order. I have nothing against Mr Jones seems a nice bloke and undoubtedly just providing a service to a particular segment of the stalking market (wealthy Londoners-nowt wrong with that) but I’m not convinced of the merit of PDS accreditation.
devon deer stalker
Well-Known Member
That is a very good question, I assume once a food hygiene course is completed a 'number' is issued?
Did my DSC1 with the BDS in Cornwall, I think it was 1999, over 4 days, learnt quite a bit, I think it hadn't been around that long.
I only raised this thread again for the question above, and as for the second time I have a potential client (maybe he is on here?) who has completed the PDS1.
I am a little sceptical of this qualification reading other posts, does anyone know if an actual shoot test has taken place like the DSC1?
I assume the PDS2 is really only equivalent to the the DSC1 with the additional of food hygiene certificate?
Therefore not acceptable to the FC if you wanted a lease with them?
I looked here PDS2 Deer Stalking Certificate
Cheers
Richard
I stayed down close to David Stretton's place to do my L1, Then after a couple of years I had witnessed stalks with several people, most memorable one was with John Archer @ Criggion ...What a guy! ... One arm ... Stalks & drives vehicles just as well as anyone with two arms, He insisted on my staying in the vehicle while he did all the gate work 
.. I had to do the inspection & gralloch on an earlier guest stalkers deer, as we couldn't get on a group that morning, He commented in my L2 write up " The drop tongue method was carried out in a professional manner"
.. I had to do the inspection & gralloch on an earlier guest stalkers deer, as we couldn't get on a group that morning, He commented in my L2 write up " The drop tongue method was carried out in a professional manner"
sikamalc
Administrator
Except with PDS1, there is no double check to my knowledge to ensure an appropriate pass? Unlike DSC which goes through a fairly rigorous check, and if you fail one part of the course you can retake it. Can you with PDS1? I don't know, but as some running these courses have only been stalking 5 minutes in my book, no doubt it will not matter. Harsh I know, but that's my opinion.
Having had several people out as clients, who had been deemed to have passed PDS1 by certain organisations, I can tell you that after 3 of them were taken for £500 each (£1500) for the day, they thought they could then move on to Level 2 (DMQ). To which I replied, "as far as I am aware, that is not possible, as you do not have the industry standard DMQ1"
As I mentioned before, I think, in another thread sometime back. As I was busy with booked clients, a client contacted me to stalk in West Sussex with me, the only possible opening I had was in a high seat on their own. As a rule, unless I know them reasonably well, I never do this. So I decided to ask them some questions to satisfy myself that they knew what to look for. Only one attended the first stalk, outing as the others couldnt make the date. This was mid to late winter, from memory. Prior to Covid just kicking in.
1. First question. You are sitting in my high seat and two Roe come out, how will you tell the difference between a buck and a doe if the bucks have cast. Answer, its got antlers. My answer was, as most bucks will have cast, how will you make sure you don't shoot one of my potential medal bucks, thinking it's a doe?........................didnt know, hadnt learnt that on the course, didn't have a scooby do. Knew nothing about anal tush as a major identification on a Roe doe in winter.
2. Client asked, what time can we hunt until. This was a PM stalk. He had no idea of one hour before and one hour after.
By this time the penny had dropped, after further questioning, and I put him with one of my experienced guides in a high seat where Fallow were most likely. As time was marching on I asked him twice if his rifle was sighted in before he arrived. Yes was the answer, and he had a Swarvo scope with ballistic turrets, so good kit.
Up in the seat he asked again what time we can shoot to!!
Once in the seat he was told to load the rifle. Which he did. However he was told to put the safety on, which he had not done. He then kept looking through the scope all the time. My guide asked him again if he had sighted the rifle in. Yes the guy running the course did it, and charged me for it!!
Back down and check the rifle, 4 inches out at 100yds, and he was charged for this on top of the £500 for a days course.
The ONLY course that is worth your time and money is DSC1 and 2. and DSC1 is normally £300 per candidate for a 3 day course. Now tell me PDS1 is worth it, for £500.
Having had several people out as clients, who had been deemed to have passed PDS1 by certain organisations, I can tell you that after 3 of them were taken for £500 each (£1500) for the day, they thought they could then move on to Level 2 (DMQ). To which I replied, "as far as I am aware, that is not possible, as you do not have the industry standard DMQ1"
As I mentioned before, I think, in another thread sometime back. As I was busy with booked clients, a client contacted me to stalk in West Sussex with me, the only possible opening I had was in a high seat on their own. As a rule, unless I know them reasonably well, I never do this. So I decided to ask them some questions to satisfy myself that they knew what to look for. Only one attended the first stalk, outing as the others couldnt make the date. This was mid to late winter, from memory. Prior to Covid just kicking in.
1. First question. You are sitting in my high seat and two Roe come out, how will you tell the difference between a buck and a doe if the bucks have cast. Answer, its got antlers. My answer was, as most bucks will have cast, how will you make sure you don't shoot one of my potential medal bucks, thinking it's a doe?........................didnt know, hadnt learnt that on the course, didn't have a scooby do. Knew nothing about anal tush as a major identification on a Roe doe in winter.
2. Client asked, what time can we hunt until. This was a PM stalk. He had no idea of one hour before and one hour after.
By this time the penny had dropped, after further questioning, and I put him with one of my experienced guides in a high seat where Fallow were most likely. As time was marching on I asked him twice if his rifle was sighted in before he arrived. Yes was the answer, and he had a Swarvo scope with ballistic turrets, so good kit.
Up in the seat he asked again what time we can shoot to!!
Once in the seat he was told to load the rifle. Which he did. However he was told to put the safety on, which he had not done. He then kept looking through the scope all the time. My guide asked him again if he had sighted the rifle in. Yes the guy running the course did it, and charged me for it!!
Back down and check the rifle, 4 inches out at 100yds, and he was charged for this on top of the £500 for a days course.
The ONLY course that is worth your time and money is DSC1 and 2. and DSC1 is normally £300 per candidate for a 3 day course. Now tell me PDS1 is worth it, for £500.
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bottletopbill
Well-Known Member
How could you pass the 100y shooting test with that set up.
Shows £300 for a four day course for a DSC1 is cheap and a great way to learn some basics.
put mine of for years but so glad i done all four days.
You get what you put into it.
Shows £300 for a four day course for a DSC1 is cheap and a great way to learn some basics.
put mine of for years but so glad i done all four days.
You get what you put into it.
devon deer stalker
Well-Known Member
Correct, DMQ confirmed, DSC1 required before DSC2 can be commenced, PDS1 is not relevant to going down this route.
Whatever way you look at it DSC level one is something every deerstalker ends up needing . IMO there has been a bit much watering down at Level 2 now , culling one Park deer is simply not right as regards qualifying a persons ability to stalk in close etc
sikamalc
Administrator
I agree. One deer is not enough in my opinion. However Level 2 is now pretty tight to a greater extent. By that I mean the candidate is really quizzed and needs to show and name all the lymph system, and understand wounded deer scenarios etc. But I still agree with your thoughts, and one park deer or even one deer in the wild is something I feel is not enough.
Extraction for a start off is totally different with a big Fallow buck and a Muntjac. Or a Red deer on the open hill compared to taking a Roe off.
But that's my personal opinion, before someone questions it.
Gosh i got questioned Like they didn't want anyone to pass , anyhow describing and naming the lymphatic system from mouth through to anus. Alex Jagger did it and i had a fictious wounded deer situation that will totally never happen to anyone least alone me. That was however IMO better than it is today simply a pass factory , it was three witnessed kills then but i think most put in at least Half a dozen of more , its one now and the stalk can be ; I got out the truck walked up to the fence line and shot one at 50 yards while it was on the fodder we put out last night in the enclosure
De- valued it hence folks aint jumping at doing level two any longer
sikamalc
Administrator
I've had one or two enquire of late, regarding undertaking a Level 2 stalk. But in all cases, after discussing the in's and out's they decided to wait a little while to gain more experience. In many cases I am asked to take them and do a dry run on a Level 2 to see if they have the experience and knowledge to achieve it. Which I have no issue with at all.
I think also one stalk/deer for DSC2 is selling it short.
I always viewed level 2 as a bit of a declaration of intent from a stalker, those prepared to move forward and happy to put the time and effort (and often money) in to the job. For me it was quite a bit of swatting up on anatomy and £600 that at the time was hard to find.
A pal has just got into stalking, done level 1, and has a ‘might as well’ attitude (very understandable) towards level 2.
I always viewed level 2 as a bit of a declaration of intent from a stalker, those prepared to move forward and happy to put the time and effort (and often money) in to the job. For me it was quite a bit of swatting up on anatomy and £600 that at the time was hard to find.
A pal has just got into stalking, done level 1, and has a ‘might as well’ attitude (very understandable) towards level 2.
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