Pigeon Loft for Gundog training

[Alex88]

Does anybody on here keep a pigeon loft for training pointing and flushing? I'm interested in getting started with one and am fascinated by how they do it in America. Walk out to a training session with a bag of pigeons, and they fly home so you could do it again tomorrow!

 

[Tim.243]

Does anybody on here keep a pigeon loft for training pointing and flushing? I'm interested in getting started with one and am fascinated by how they do it in America. Walk out to a training session with a bag of pigeons, and they fly home so you could do it again tomorrow!

What will your dog point and flush after the training?

 

[Alex88]

What will your dog point and flush after the training?

Pigeons but in theory the behaviors and steadiness would transfer to pheasants, woodcock and snipe too wouldn't it?

 

[Tim.243]

Pigeons but in theory the behaviors and steadiness would transfer to pheasants, woodcock and snipe too wouldn't it?

Pigeons don't sit in cover! pheasants will but most will be on their toes down the hedge line like on a game shoot later in the season. They look at the clock and say
It is Saturday 9.30 lets get going.
What pointer have you got?

 

[Alex88]

Pigeons don't sit in cover! pheasants will but most will be on their toes down the hedge line like on a game shoot later in the season. They look at the clock and say
It is Saturday 9.30 lets get going.
What pointer have you got?

In America they either hypnotise them or put them in remote control pigeon traps. I've got a wirehaired vizsla which I use mainly for rough walked up shooting and wildfowling. Pointing has no use on the beating line I know but for the walked up it's great. She's pretty good at the moment but I'd like to be able to "engineer" the opportunity to really reinforce the pointing

 

[Dunwaters]

You don’t need your own loft unless you’re a professional. Buy/ trap a few pheasant or partridge and plant them for the dog if you feel that you need to, but if you have to train a pup to point you’ve got the wrong pup.

 

[Covert]

They do all sorts in America with live birds for dog training, bird launchers of various types Zinger winger etc , bird harnesses, dizzied birds ( I think what you are referring to as hypnotised). Not all would be deemed ethical or even legal in the U.K.

 

[Alex88]

Trapping them is only legal in season though isn't it? I agree to a point but then we train dogs to track deer, retrieve game, or hunt don't we? What's the difference?

You don’t need your own loft unless you’re a professional. Buy/ trap a few pheasant or partridge and plant them for the dog if you feel that you need to, but if you have to train a pup to point you’ve got the wrong pup.

 

[Rhodesianjess]

Don't know about pointing dogs at all, I keep Labradors. Mine accompany me everywhere from innoculations onwards. Walking them through stock birds pens certainly steadies them up. The chickens that roam about with assorted other fowl eg two ganders plus guineafowl keep them from chasing birds, they're not as keen as puppies brought up differently to pursue things.
Presumably pointing practice on any bird is a good thing, whatever species it is. Tried your local park or town square, they're normally home to birds that aren't afraid of humans?

 

[Dunwaters]

A half way decent pointing dog of almost any breed will point pretty much as soon as it can stand.
Some of the setters, particularly the Irish are a bit slower and can take up to a year -18 months before they will do it, but it shouldn’t be something that you have to teach a pointer to do.
Once a dog is pointing the only reason that you need planted birds is to instil steadiness.
If your dog is unsteady a couple of plants can be useful to remind it of its manners, but you don’t need a loft full of pigeons to train any pointer breed.
Not unless you‘re main interest is pigeon racing….

 

[Brittany boy]

I did the same using feral pigeons from the farm. Trap them by feeding them with the doors open every day then when you need birds set the doors. Dizzy them by tucking the head under the wing and sp8n them around then lie them in long grass with the body on top of the head side down. They will lie there for a while if you tuck the long grass over them. Then run the dog downwind and she will scent them go on point. It does transfer to other species pheasant duck partridge. I’ve also kept a few quail in a cage in the garage that I put in small wire boxes and hid in the grass for the Brittany that also worked well.

 

[@theroedeerguy]

I did the same using feral pigeons from the farm. Trap them by feeding them with the doors open every day then when you need birds set the doors. Dizzy them by tucking the head under the wing and sp8n them around then lie them in long grass with the body on top of the head side down. They will lie there for a while if you tuck the long grass over them. Then run the dog downwind and she will scent them go on point. It does transfer to other species pheasant duck partridge. I’ve also kept a few quail in a cage in the garage that I put in small wire boxes and hid in the grass for the Brittany that also worked well.

What General Licensing exemption are you exercising to trap feral pigeons for the purpose of dog training?

General Licences for Birds - 2023

Below are our Gen

www.nature.scot

 

[Alex88]

What General Licensing exemption are you exercising to trap feral pigeons for the purpose of dog training?

General Licences for Birds - 2023

Below are our Gen

www.nature.scot

Feral pigeons are vermin aren't they?

 

[Alex88]

A half way decent pointing dog of almost any breed will point pretty much as soon as it can stand.
Some of the setters, particularly the Irish are a bit slower and can take up to a year -18 months before they will do it, but it shouldn’t be something that you have to teach a pointer to do.
Once a dog is pointing the only reason that you need planted birds is to instil steadiness.
If your dog is unsteady a couple of plants can be useful to remind it of its manners, but you don’t need a loft full of pigeons to train any pointer breed.
Not unless you‘re main interest is pigeon racing….

Perhaps I worded my original question badly, I'm not trying to teach my dog to point for the first time, rather to improve the way she does it and work on sit to flush, steadiness etc. If we stopped training each thing we ask of our dogs after they do it correctly once, then dog training wouldn't be the lifelong activity that it is. Most breeds retrieve a dummy instinctively from a young age, but we still train and improve retrieving don't we. Pointing needn't be any different.

 

[@theroedeerguy]

Feral pigeons are vermin aren't they?

Yes they are but they are a wild bird. All wild birds are afforded protection under the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 but there are exemptions available for control and “taking” from the wild for some species under general licence provision.

 

[Dunwaters]

Perhaps I worded my original question badly, I'm not trying to teach my dog to point for the first time, rather to improve the way she does it and work on sit to flush, steadiness etc. If we stopped training each thing we ask of our dogs after they do it correctly once, then dog training wouldn't be the lifelong activity that it is. Most breeds retrieve a dummy instinctively from a young age, but we still train and improve retrieving don't we. Pointing needn't be any different.

Ok, run your pup, when it points whistle ‘stop” get right on top of it and send it in. If it goes in on its own and flushes without the command get right in its face, not allowed.
When the bird flushes hit the stop whistle.
If the pup doesn’t stop go back and practice the stop whistle bit without game until it will, 100% of the time.
Try again with game, right on top of it and make it drop to flush and shot, every single time and don’t let it retrieve a single bird it points, if its steady it can retrieve birds shot over someone else’s point.
Under no circumstances do you send your dog for a handy seen retrieve unless your in a trial and the judge asks you to get it.,
A well trained pointing dog is definitely one of the finest sights in the sporting scene, and well worth the effort.

 

[countrryboy]

I know a few trainers with there own pigeon lofts and not just pointer trainers.

Was a bit of an old fashioned dog training trick but I know 1 spaniel trainer that started a loft just 10 years ago.
The basic principles will be the same for a rabbit pen, nothing like real life but trying to simulate a naturalish flush artifically in a controlled environment so u can work on wot ever u need to

 

[Lloyd90]

If you have land where you can go rough shooting over your dog regularly in season, shooting proper wild birds walked up over the dog, then just my view but I would save up the time and effort and focus on that.

Pigeons are ok to start off training steady to flush but any dog with half a brain gets wise to them pretty quickly.

Which means it can be a lot of effort to built, establish a loft, train the birds etc, only for the dogs to wise up within a week or two or use, and then you need to progress onto the next stage anyway.



Add in the fact that a lot of the stuff they do with live animals and dog training in the USA, would get you a criminal conviction in the U.K. if the lefties saw and reported you, I would suggest approaching with caution.

 

[stalker.308]

Seems a straightforward question, although from the responses you wouldn’t think so. OP asked if anyone had used a loft for pointing training.

A friend of mine does just this, @Alex88 bung me a pm happy to help. I have benefitted from use of the loft with my own HPR’s in the past.

 

[Heym SR20]

If you have a look at Standing Stone YouTube channel they are using feral pigeons as the basis for teaching gundogs to point, hold, flush and retrieve. There is a video on setting up and capturing feral pigeons.

Whether this is legal / ethical in the UK I haven’t a clue. But it seems to work in the midwest of America.