Potential lead ban?

[Redleg]

My last word. And finally if this is prompted by concerns that retailers won't take lead shot game I'll say this.

I've not eaten wild duck that's sold since the lead ban on wildfowl came in and won't eat pheasant if a lead ban overall comes in.

I value my teeth too much. As I think so others. If I can't be certain it has not been shot with steel I don't buy it.

And last as it is anyway illegal in Scotland to sell dead wild geese what they've been shot with is irrelevant.

From what I understand it, the amount of damaged game shot with steel will increase so the dealer will have to throw more into dog feed than into the food chain.
This in turn will drive prices up when lead shot game retail prices are at a premium. So basically blows the theory of supermarkets crying out for steel shot game.
But maybe there is a game dealer on here that can confirm this

 

[kes]

Ed has a good point, this has been coming for a long time, I remember discussing it a decade ago with a German friend over there when hunting boar.

The main manufacturers have stuck their heads in the sand to a degree and have had half hearted attempts at alternatives as simply lead kills the best and everyone knows it and finding something as effective is difficult or dare I say prohibitively expensive.

What is needed is an independent peer reviewed study regarding the whole lead shot issue.

That aside the way that BASC, CLA, GWCT etc have dealt with this is completely wrong and left of field and their membership/support will suffer (I left BASC after almost two decades and messaged them why - they didn’t answer which means to me they don’t care). I understand they are trying to be proactive but they seem to be doing this on the wrong issue. While I agree with biodegradable or fibre wads and paper cases for environmental reasons beyond this really is an own goal.

Read the SGA release on lead shot and it is everything that the other groups should have advocated - they also do insurance for £40 (less than BASC) for the same cover and actively fight for members regarding issues.

That is where I’m putting my money, I don’t want a crap quarterly magazine filled with adverts.

It was called the Lead Ammunition Group - you should read up about it.
its report was discredited when BASC disowned its former Chief Executive - John Swift for changing his 'horse' mid review - without any justification.
DEFRA shelved the report as not being based on scientific facts - I agree though another bite at the cherry and its completely F****** ** this relatively safe situation.
Still thats what BASC et AL apparently do best - **** things up.

 

[Dunwaters]

I agree but I am waiting with bated breath for the BASC announcement - how will they disguise this 'u' turn ? Greta may have joined?

The current medical view is that there is no safe level of lead.
Seems a bit extreme but so do many things nowadays.

 

[Mick Miller]

There's no safe limit of alcohol. We all still drink it though.

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

There's no safe limit of alcohol. We all still drink it though.

but if farmers produced milk with alcohol in it the supermarkets wouldn't buy it.....therein lies the issue

our route to market of the stuff we shoot is controlled by people who no longer will accept a product with lead, whether it be venison or game.
if we lose our route to market the justification for game farming is killed overnight,
if the game farming industry is stopped estates go bust, cartridge sale plummet, everything goes up in price except the value of guns......

 

[25 Sharps]

That ship has sailed and is already about to dock!

Good news is that effective and viable, accurate non-lead options are available in 50gr that will stabilise in 14x1 222 and 22-250 barrels
.223 was never an issue

Bigger issue is a Scottish large deer 100gr .243 round which can never work in a factory 1:10” twist

The bigger issue is .22 lr particularly subsonic, WMR, .17 HMR and decent
BC fragmenting vermin bullets

 

[Roestalker39]

but if farmers produced milk with alcohol in it the supermarkets wouldn't buy it.....therein lies the issue

our route to market of the stuff we shoot is controlled by people who no longer will accept a product with lead, whether it be venison or game.
if we lose our route to market the justification for game farming is killed overnight,
if the game farming industry is stopped estates go bust, cartridge sale plummet, everything goes up in price except the value of guns......

But as I said before game being shot with steel with have zero effect on people wanting to buy game and that’s what will drive sales ! People who refuse to eat game do so because nasty men with guns shoot it !

 

[BEAR1]

I only see this as ruse to just stop people shooting full stop.

 

[Greenmist]

But as I said before game being shot with steel with have zero effect on people wanting to buy game and that’s what will drive sales ! People who refuse to eat game do so because nasty men with guns shoot it !

Thats the reality of the matter, I think the inclusion of game to the national diet is a pipe dream, the birds are seasonal, the majority of venison will be farmed. A much better avenue would be the pet food market

 

[enfieldspares]

It's like the BS over raw milk. I grew up as a kid on raw milk yet now except "at the farm gate" it is illegal to sell it.

There is risk in everything. I'm having a cup of tea whilst typing this. I could spill it over the keyboard and electrocute myself to death.

 

[Greenmist]

There is risk in everything. I'm having a cup of tea whilst typing this. I could spill it over the keyboard and electrocute myself to death.

Live life to the max

 

[AGR]

Thats the reality of the matter, I think the inclusion of game to the national diet is a pipe dream, the birds are seasonal, the majority of venison will be farmed. A much better avenue would be the pet food market

You can't put game meat with lead shot into the pet food market though. At least most of us can spit it out.

 

[Greenmist]

You can't put game meat with lead shot into the pet food market though. At least most of us can spit it out.

I wasn't suggesting we do

 

[AGR]

I wasn't suggesting we do

The problem is that it already has no monetary value, and by the time the lead ban is in place, Wild Justice may have restricted the number of game birds released. We all prefer the status quo.

 

[kes]

The current medical view is that there is no safe level of lead.
Seems a bit extreme but so do many things nowadays.

In that case stop drinking beer which has a very high lead level, higher than shot game - run your taps if you live in an old property so you avoid dissolved lead and also tell DEFRA they are wrong.
There is no safe level of flying, of driving, of butter (oh that's changed back), meat, bacon and sausages are high risk many many things and unless you mine lead, smelt lead or any metals with a lead component, you arent more at risk than of breaking your neck when getting out of bed, or maybe a bacon sarni now and again for tea.
Perspective is everything, being populist is nothing.

No safe level of drinking
A large new global study published in the Lancet has confirmed previous research which has shown that there is no safe level of alcohol consumption. The researchers admit moderate drinking may protect against heart disease but found that the risk of cancer and other diseases outweighs these protections.24 Aug 2018

Stop all drinking or be sensible?

 

[AGR]

In that case stop drinking beer which has a very high lead level, higher than shot game - run your taps if you live in an old property so you avoid dissolved lead and also tell DEFRA they are wrong.
There is no safe level of flying, of driving, of butter (oh that's changed back), meat, bacon and sausages are high risk many many things and unless you mine lead, smelt lead or any metals with a lead component, you arent more at risk than of breaking your neck when getting out of bed, or maybe a bacon sarni now and again for tea.
Perspective is everything, being populist is nothing.

No safe level of drinking
A large new global study published in the Lancet has confirmed previous research which has shown that there is no safe level of alcohol consumption. The researchers admit moderate drinking may protect against heart disease but found that the risk of cancer and other diseases outweighs these protections.24 Aug 2018

Stop all drinking or be sensible?

You read too much! I'm losing the will to live!

 

[kes]

You read too much! I'm losing the will to live!

I understand, I just like to have the right perspective and not some 'gifted wisdom' without any background I can find, read and factor into my opinions. You never stop learning.
That's why I enjoy reloading.
If you really need an in depth assessment though - ask Enfieldspares or Orion - I reckon they and quite a few others read more than I do.

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

Thats the reality of the matter, I think the inclusion of game to the national diet is a pipe dream, the birds are seasonal, the majority of venison will be farmed. A much better avenue would be the pet food market

Ask any of the major AGHEs what proportion of the venison is farmed
Then ask them where it comes from
At the current rate UK farmed Venison will take decades to catch up with the volume of venison required and also compete with the volume of venison shot .
Also if farmed venison takes over what happens to the hundreds of thousands of deer that are shot as part of land management and national agency policies ?
You will see a collapse in the price of Venison followed by a very quick collapse of any estate of the relies on guests stalking or quantities of venison to bolster their cash flow

What makes you think the pet food market will accept meat with metal in it?

 

[Pine Marten]

People who refuse to eat game do so because nasty men with guns shoot it !

No, it's because they have no idea how to cook it, and it's alien to them. It's not on their food repertoire, and most purchases of food and drink are just repeat purchases. Frankly, a hell of a lot of hunters don't know how to cook game either. It's complicated because it doesn't have the quality control of farmed meat: an old rabbit is totally different from a young one, but the label just says "Rabbit". That is controlled for domestic animals.

 

[Greenmist]

What makes you think the pet food market will accept meat with metal in it?

Just reread my post and at no point do I say, just sling it to the dog! What I do say is the pet food market is a better avenue to explore, perhaps it will work perhaps it will be a waste of time, hence looking at it.