nun_hunter
Well-Known Member
Are you advocating that we should cover up the fact some shooters have been breaking the law to allow them to continue doing so?
Lead v Lead
- Thread starter cjm1066
- Start date
How do we know that these ducks were not shot in Scotland, where it can still be legal to shoot them with lead?
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
We need id cards for ducks, little buggers
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
Because there is traceability from the shoot to game dealers through to the retailer.
Do they put tags on every single duck?
timbrayford
Well-Known Member
In that case why no prosecutions?
countrryboy
Well-Known Member
Did u not read the methodology for thay study.
Off the top of my head, had eng split up into 6 or 8 regions and didnae actually test that very many duck either.
I wouldnae say it was the most through study ever..
Not considering their putting so much faith in it.
To be quite honest really some of the orgs should of replicated it.
Yes possibly u might get the exact same results but atleast then u know wot their claiming was accurate
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
What do you think happens in a food processing plant?
It’s a legal requirement for traceability of foodstuffs. It’s why there is registration, paperwork and a paper trail with barcodes etc.
And whilst there are some published findings, I suspect the likes of the FSA would quietly do their own research for other government departments such HSE, results of which are not published for wide distribution.
countrryboy
Well-Known Member
Have u ever seen the back off a game dealers truck doing multipke pick ups?
It all just tossed in even seen deer mixed in with feather.
1 of the bigger game dealers is across the border too in eng.
So will be getting hundreds if not thousandd of legally lead shot ducks weekly heading into eng
exactly, to me that is a very good reason to licence all game shoots. so if lead is found in duck supplied by the game shoot, it would be difficult to prove he or she shot the duck but it would be very simple to revoke the shoots licence.
Then may be every shoot just may take using non toxic shot on a duck drive seriously.
The scope of the lead ban to include clay shooting is due to not all game shoots complying with the law, yet the lead ban is to make game shooting sustainable, what a joke.
Spear Chucker
Well-Known Member
Really? Ohmagod! No! This news will shake the earth to its very foundations!
Hardly surprising. You.can't blame HSE for accepting dishonest "research" when one of our more prominent shooting organisations unaccountably refused to dispute it, and even promoted it.
This is an insidious and very bad idea. If you can do that, you can revoke the shoot's licence for other reasons too like the noise of gunfire, mud on roads, antis fabricating complaints etc.
You absolutely cannot permit a situation where lawful activity can be made subject to licensing. That ends up in tyranny.
and clays shoots have lived with them concerns for years, so why is game shooting something special?
plus proper clay shoots have a section 11.6 exemption granted by the police and that could be revoked.
it’s time game shooting is seen not to be the, be-all and end-all of shooting, it has had years to stop using lead for duck shooting and failed, now we all pay the price.
“You absolutely cannot permit a situation where lawful activity can be made subject to licensing. That ends up in tyranny”. - so we do not have firearms licences or driving licences or fishing licences or ……….
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And died with them. Lots of clay grounds and ranges have been closed down.
You're making the argument that game shoots are something special, so I expect you've got a compelling answer to that question.
You're muddling categories there to include things which weren't otherwise lawful.
You’re arguing in favour of something which is inherently unjust. I am surprised you cannot see this. We already have legislation prohibiting shooting duck with lead cartridges. The proper solution is to enforce that legislation. The wrong approach which you favour is to apply a tyrannical solution of arbitrary and disproportionate punishment of other people without trial for alleged crimes which have not been proven to have even occurred. In essence, can’t be bothered to apply the law - never mind, just arbitrarily punish some other people.
Is this your general view on how to run society, or is it a specific anti-shooting bias you’ve acquired?
The law as it stands provides for confiscating the assets of drug dealers. As we know it’s turning out to be tricky to eliminate drug dealing. Why not have a licensing system which allows for all the assets of whole neighbourhoods/villages/towns to be confiscated if any evidence of drugs is found there? That seems just to you?
@Apthorpe
last point first, actually think it’s time some drugs were legalised, it would bring in money for the government and likely reduce crime, like Hollland do.
In an ideal world the resources, police?, would be available to police game shoots to ensure compliance of the law and prosecute any offenders, but we do not live in an ideal world.
From my understanding the ban on lead by wild fowlers has been enforced strictly by clubs on their membership, so if they can do it why did not game shoots? Or is the money they make from the shoot more important that the law ?
Do you not think clay shooters are now being arbitrary punished due to some game shooters reckless behaviour?
Think driving was lawful awhile before licences were introduced likewise firearms.
I am not anti live quarry shooting, do a lot of it myself, did stop game shooting when covid arrived, but do a lot of crop protection and if a farmer tells me no plastic wads I comply, I do not stick two fingers up at him and ignore him which is effectively what some game shooters are doing.with duck drives. You know they have a couple of non toxic cartridges in their pocket but shoot lead.
last point first, actually think it’s time some drugs were legalised, it would bring in money for the government and likely reduce crime, like Hollland do.
In an ideal world the resources, police?, would be available to police game shoots to ensure compliance of the law and prosecute any offenders, but we do not live in an ideal world.
From my understanding the ban on lead by wild fowlers has been enforced strictly by clubs on their membership, so if they can do it why did not game shoots? Or is the money they make from the shoot more important that the law ?
Do you not think clay shooters are now being arbitrary punished due to some game shooters reckless behaviour?
Think driving was lawful awhile before licences were introduced likewise firearms.
I am not anti live quarry shooting, do a lot of it myself, did stop game shooting when covid arrived, but do a lot of crop protection and if a farmer tells me no plastic wads I comply, I do not stick two fingers up at him and ignore him which is effectively what some game shooters are doing.with duck drives. You know they have a couple of non toxic cartridges in their pocket but shoot lead.
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tackb
Well-Known Member
you're not mike yardley in disguise are you?
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
So you now telling all of us that the game shooting and game processing industries do not abide by the basic requirements of traceability and hygiene as laid down in the Food Standards guidelines. Even basic traceability is required so that game dealers and estates / shoots have records for purposes of invoicing and payments.
Yes, it doesn't stay "sorted" for very long!
triggertrix
Well-Known Member
Have to say, I’ve seen full lorry’s turn up with hundreds of red, roe, sika, hares, ducks, pheasants, partridges, etc, all stacked on top of each other like bodies, crammed so full tailgates can hardly shut. And that’s with pretty reputable dealers, going to very reputable distributors, selling to supermarkets, might add….
Also seen larders emptied onto dirt covered floors (mud, pigeon shjite, etc), all deer and hares and feathered game just thrown in a pile outside, for the cheap eastern European workers to chop away at, before ending in established local borders restaurants
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