Lead v Lead

[cjm1066]

The proposals from HSE:

Will allow us to use lead rifle bullets on outdoor ranges with a lead recovery in place.

They will ban the use of shotguns on all clay pigeon shooting grounds even if lead recovery is undertaken. So at say Bisley you can use lead on the rifle range but not the adjacent clay ground. An old clay range I used was stripped of its lead commercially.

Then elite athletes are excempt!

This looks illogical and something to fight for in the legislation?

Even if they ban the sale of lead cartridges goes through it would allow us to use up old stocks on some clay grounds.

PS the aurgments on the "dangers" of lead and the failures of "X" organisation have been debated extensively on SD and don't need repeating.

 

[Liveonce]

agree, locally post ban we will have a clay ground and range that has many years of lead shot on the ground, that will still be able to let lead airgun pellets be used and fall anywhere, but no lead shot and the lead “target” bullets must be captured and reclaimed.

Clever wildlife to know the difference between that lead which will kill me but that lead which will not

Then not to mention the millions of rounds of lead ammunition that is likely used on two of the MODs largest ranges in the Southeast, Hythe and Lydd.

 

[timbrayford]

The proposals from HSE:

Will allow us to use lead rifle bullets on outdoor ranges with a lead recovery in place.

They will ban the use of shotguns on all clay pigeon shooting grounds even if lead recovery is undertaken. So at say Bisley you can use lead on the rifle range but not the adjacent clay ground. An old clay range I used was stripped of its lead commercially.

Then elite athletes are excempt!

This looks illogical and something to fight for in the legislation?

Even if they ban the sale of lead cartridges goes through it would allow us to use up old stocks on some clay grounds.

PS the aurgments on the "dangers" of lead and the failures of "X" organisation have been debated extensively on SD and don't need repeating.

Don't know if you saw Fieldsports Channel last night but they had an ex.Tory MP who thought that the proposed ban was more politically motivated than science backed. Its worth a watch.

 

[Smellydog]

If there is but 1oz of common sense left in this common sense arid land I hope it comes to the fore over this freaking lead ban thing!!

 

[HonestJohn]

If there is but 1oz of common sense left in this common sense arid land I hope it comes to the fore over this freaking lead ban thing!!

If there is but 1oz of common sense left in this common sense arid land I hope it comes to the fore over this freaking lead ban thing!!

There is not

 

[Apthorpe]

Don't know if you saw Fieldsports Channel last night but they had an ex.Tory MP who thought that the proposed ban was more politically motivated than science backed. Its worth a watch.

Of course it is political. If it was science backed, they wouldn’t be leglislating over ammunition. There is no coherent scientific explanation for it.

 

[Heym SR20]

If they allow the sale of lead shotgun cartridges for clay pigeon shooting, these will simply end up being used fir game shooting.

There is plenty of very good evidence that many shooters will not abide by the law. The HSE use the example of the high percentage of wild ducks offered for sale containing lead shot.

With target shooting FMJ bullets do not perform very well on deer and this the temptation to use them is very much less. I am sure there will be a few who will snip the ends off, or turn them over in the same way 303 Ball was doctored to perform better on game.

 

[Jagdmatch]

agree, locally post ban we will have a clay ground and range that has many years of lead shot on the ground, that will still be able to let lead airgun pellets be used and fall anywhere, but no lead shot and the lead “target” bullets must be captured and reclaimed.

Clever wildlife to know the difference between that lead which will kill me but that lead which will not

Then not to mention the millions of rounds of lead ammunition that is likely used on two of the MODs largest ranges in the Southeast, Hythe and Lydd.

Which I think are SSSI in both cases!

 

[Apthorpe]

If they allow the sale of lead shotgun cartridges for clay pigeon shooting, these will simply end up being used fir game shooting.

There is plenty of very good evidence that many shooters will not abide by the law. The HSE use the example of the high percentage of wild ducks offered for sale containing lead shot.

That example is very poor evidence indeed. It is my opinion that very few, if any, real wild ducks are offered for sale where those pseudo-scientists got them. Those were, almost certainly, released duck shot off ponds on commercial shoots, and not shot over wetlands. Owing to relatively recent changes, that is illegal, however, everybody knows it is not polluting wetlands.

With target shooting FMJ bullets do not perform very well on deer and this the temptation to use them is very much less. I am sure there will be a few who will snip the ends off, or turn them over in the same way 303 Ball was doctored to perform better on game.

Perhaps so, but many target bullets are hollow point or tipped.

 

[Liveonce]

If they allow the sale of lead shotgun cartridges for clay pigeon shooting, these will simply end up being used fir game shooting.

There is plenty of very good evidence that many shooters will not abide by the law. The HSE use the example of the high percentage of wild ducks offered for sale containing lead shot.

With target shooting FMJ bullets do not perform very well on deer and this the temptation to use them is very much less. I am sure there will be a few who will snip the ends off, or turn them over in the same way 303 Ball was doctored to perform better on game.

yet rifle shooters will, given they are going to allow a label on “target” rifle ammunition that states not for live quarry use.

it’s BS.

 

[andyk]

Trouble with complaining too loudly about it being inconsistent is that the politicians solution will be to ban both.

 

[Nickb]

Of course it's political ...pure and simple.

 

[Rewulf]

Trouble with complaining too loudly about it being inconsistent is that the politicians solution will be to ban both.

That will come, they will 'find' some evidence, and anything that isnt in the ban already, soon will be.
At the same time they will go after wads, rendering even steel shot redundant.
Shooting will become the preserve of the rich, THEN theyll be happy.

 

[cjm1066]

If they allow the sale of lead shotgun cartridges for clay pigeon shooting, these will simply end up being used fir game shooting.

There is plenty of very good evidence that many shooters will not abide by the law. The HSE use the example of the high percentage of wild ducks offered for sale containing lead shot.

With target shooting FMJ bullets do not perform very well on deer and this the temptation to use them is very much less. I am sure there will be a few who will snip the ends off, or turn them over in the same way 303 Ball was doctored to perform better on game.

And therein lies the problem, rather than unite and push for pragmatism, we publicly state that our fellow shooters break the law.

 

[Heym SR20]

And therein lies the problem, rather than unite and push for pragmatism, we publicly state that our fellow shooters break the law.

I was citing what the HSE is saying about the shooting community and the reason why there is a complete ban.

 

[timbrayford]

That will come, they will 'find' some evidence, and anything that isnt in the ban already, soon will be.
At the same time they will go after wads, rendering even steel shot redundant.
Shooting will become the preserve of the rich, THEN theyll be happy.

Notably the minority support for the lead ban on Fieldsports Channel appeared to be coming from the premium priced commercial shoots

 

[Liveonce]

I was citing what the HSE is saying about the shooting community and the reason why there is a complete ban.

i wonder where the HSE got that idea from?

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

A very simple solution to this problem, stock up and keep you gob shut about what you are up too!

The no one will be the wiser

 

[webley701]

If they allow the sale of lead shotgun cartridges for clay pigeon shooting, these will simply end up being used fir game shooting.

There is plenty of very good evidence that many shooters will not abide by the law. The HSE use the example of the high percentage of wild ducks offered for sale containing lead shot.

With target shooting FMJ bullets do not perform very well on deer and this the temptation to use them is very much less. I am sure there will be a few who will snip the ends off, or turn them over in the same way 303 Ball was doctored to perform better on game.

A point of order - the majority of rifle bullets used for ‘target shooting are not FMJ.

 

[Pellet Pinger]

I was citing what the HSE is saying about the shooting community and the reason why there is a complete ban.

So you would think that an organization that claims its fighting for all shooters would be publicly denouncing the HSE for suggesting that.
Oh, hang on a minute.