Re-introduction of Large predators

[.25-06]

How many fallow deer can a lynx kill and consume in a week? Answers on a postcard to Anthony Juniper of Natural England.

K

He only manages to eat upto 15 Roe within 100km²

 

[fixedwheel]

Basically, intensify agriculture on the productive land, and reduce agriculture on the less productive areas.

That's going to be a good trick, as they seem to be taking large chunks of prime farmland out of production, and putting solar panels on it.

 

[weblyish]

That's going to be a good trick, as they seem to be taking large chunks of prime farmland out of production, and putting solar panels on it.

I'm a simple man and need a simple explanation of how it is better not to grow food on some land because other land can grow food slightly better when there continue to be more people the world every day

Don't we like need all the food growing spaces we can

 

[randello88]

Got sent a study on the stakeholder views on the reintroduction of large predators and was surprised I'd not seen it here first

There's some background and view in a magazine by the same author as the study here
Rewild Magazine | PDF to Flipbook

Study here:
Eurasian Lynx Reintroductions - what do you think?

maybe you'd like to have a view on sharing your permissions with a Lynx, I personally would love to see them roaming the wilds but then I'm not a sheep farmer

Do not introduce wolves, here in Italy we have a big problem with them

 

[Ratel]

That's just to frighten the immigrants.

Maybe but look at Wild Rutland Web.

 

[VSS]

I'm a simple man and need a simple explanation of how it is better not to grow food on some land because other land can grow food slightly better when there continue to be more people the world every day

Don't we like need all the food growing spaces we can

That's a very selfish attitude. We're not the only species that's trying to eke out a living on this planet.
Haven't we destroyed enough already? Isn't it perhaps time to be giving some land back to the other species that depend upon it? Our right to use the land is no greater than theirs, and our need is no greater.

 

[timbrayford]

That's a very selfish attitude. We're not the only species that's trying to eke out a living on this planet.
Haven't we destroyed enough already? Isn't it perhaps time to be giving some land back to the other species that depend upon it? Our right to use the land is no greater than theirs, and our need is no greater.

Thats ok to a point, but what if the lack of food security in the UK results in precious environments in the third world being converted to agriculture, together with the use of pesticides long since banned here?

 

[VSS]

Thats ok to a point, but what if the lack of food security in the UK results in precious environments in the third world being converted to agriculture, together with the use of pesticides long since banned here?

Attaining food security in the UK doesn't necessarily mean using more land for food production. And it doesn't necessarily mean we can't put aside land for environmental regeneration.
What it does mean is that we need to use our most productive land more efficiently, and we need to drastically reduce food waste.
Whether or not food should be imported from other areas of the world, to the detriment of their fragile habitats, is often more to do with consumer expectation of what products should be available and when, rather than actual need.

 

[Chris Richardson]

Attaining food security in the UK doesn't necessarily mean using more land for food production. And it doesn't necessarily mean we can't put aside land for environmental regeneration.
What it does mean is that we need to use our most productive land more efficiently, and we need to drastically reduce food waste.
Whether or not food should be imported from other areas of the world, to the detriment of their fragile habitats, is often more to do with consumer expectation of what products should be available and when, rather than actual need.

a good point tim but weve been trying to get the public to reduce food waste for years to no avail

 

[Ratel]

Attaining food security in the UK doesn't necessarily mean using more land for food production. And it doesn't necessarily mean we can't put aside land for environmental regeneration.
What it does mean is that we need to use our most productive land more efficiently, and we need to drastically reduce food waste.
Whether or not food should be imported from other areas of the world, to the detriment of their fragile habitats, is often more to do with consumer expectation of what products should be available and when, rather than actual need.

If people here grew a few of their own needs and stuck to seasonal food, instead of wanting fancy foreign gear we would be far better off. For the early part of my long life that's how it worked even with rationing in place. However most youngsters today wouldn't know what a spade was and probably think their donner kebabs.grow on metal poles and burgers.on plastic trays. With the tosspots like Milliband in charge of energy we have no chance of feeding the country or generating enough power.

 

[cjm1066]

Reintroductions are poplar as they generate good publicity.

Control of Invasive Non Native Species is less news worthy. A project to save water voles by eradicating Mink across the country has to be led by a Charity Water Life Recovery Trust

Reintroduction should be open for discussion, within a list of priorities, and you would find them towards the bottom if we had a coherent policy.

 

[timbrayford]

One thing missing from this discussion is the territory size required for a sustainable population of apex predators , e.g. Mediterranean wolf pack 100-200 km2, Fennoscandia wolf pack 1000km2 +. Lynx densities, Switzerland and Eastern Poland 1-3 100km2 (source:Ungulate Management in Europe)

 

[KimE]

Its a lye what Lynx has a positive influence on capercaillie and black gruose in Sweden as stated in the article. Regulatory factors are: the weather during the the hatching weeks, availability of insects for the young chickens and the rodent population who are the main food source for the predators who prey on birds/hares/squirels if they cant find enough rodents, Lynx are not the main predator of forrest birds.

Here in the north of Sweden reindeer and roe are Lynx main quarry, sheeps are kept mostly at hobby level.

 

[KimE]

One thing missing from this discussion is the territory size required for a sustainable population of apex predators , e.g. Mediterranean wolf pack 100-200 km2, Fennoscandia wolf pack 1000km2 +. Lynx densities, Switzerland and Eastern Poland 1-3 100km2 (source:Ungulate Management in Europe)

The first wolfpack in the area may use 1000km2 the fifth pack may have to make do with 200km2.

 

[shakey jake]

That's going to be a good trick, as they seem to be taking large chunks of prime farmland out of production, and putting solar panels on it.

Thats just buissness, why should a farmer work for little return on investment and carry all the risk, when a company will rent a field for a fixed term with known returns?
The public dont want british food at this price. I dont see any one being happy when food prices rocket

 

[nun_hunter]

If people here grew a few of their own needs and stuck to seasonal food, instead of wanting fancy foreign gear we would be far better off. For the early part of my long life that's how it worked even with rationing in place. However most youngsters today wouldn't know what a spade was and probably think their donner kebabs.grow on metal poles and burgers.on plastic trays. With the tosspots like Milliband in charge of energy we have no chance of feeding the country or generating enough power.

What generation raised these youngsters who can't grow food and don't know where food came from?

What generation instigated importing exotic food due to cheap air transport and even cheaper foreign labour?

It's easy to blame the current generation of youngsters but it was the generation who raised them and their parents who instigated the practices that are common today.

The younger generation today are far more aware of how the world is being over exploited and are concerned about what state the world will be in for their kids than what their parents of grandparents were.

 

[Ratel]

What generation raised these youngsters who can't grow food and don't know where food came from?

What generation instigated importing exotic food due to cheap air transport and even cheaper foreign labour?

It's easy to blame the current generation of youngsters but it was the generation who raised them and their parents who instigated the practices that are common today.

The younger generation today are far more aware of how the world is being over exploited and are concerned about what state the world will be in for their kids than what their parents of grandparents were.

Fortunately, the ones I reared are academical and practical. They have young up to 32 year olds of their own who won't or don't want to bother growing their own, doing much beyond Uni, playing push button or worrying about where food comes from. This with the exception of one Para who is well alive to it all.
Thank goodness the food I like is what we have here and I don't very often stray into other cultures sustenance. I doubt very much if today's younger generation are more aware than my generation and may not even breed let alone worry how the world will be for their kids.

 

[timbrayford]

The first wolfpack in the area may use 1000km2 the fifth pack may have to make do with 200km2.

It doesn't work like that, any second pack might be hybrid wolf dog crosses in the peri urban environment

 

[fixedwheel]

Thats just buissness, why should a farmer work for little return on investment and carry all the risk, when a company will rent a field for a fixed term with known returns?
The public dont want british food at this price. I dont see any one being happy when food prices rocket

Not blaming the farmers, but the successive governments that have screwed up the energy markets.

 

[Thresher]

predators also need lots of land to live on