Record Red Stag

[stone]

thanks paul
i am out with the same stalker on sunday after CWD does, so i will ask him to see if he can shed any more light on the subject, i think i will get some one to look at the head and see if it is worth measuring


nice beast that james not sure you should let him hold your rifle though

stone

 

[paul k]

thanks paul
i think i will get some one to look at the head and see if it is worth measuring

It would need to be over 39" on each side with brow tines of at least 14" and everything else right to go close to a bronze which starts at 165 CIC outside Scotland.

Yours is nicely symetrical with good beams and longish brow and bey tines but I would guess the beams aren't much more than 36". I reckon it might go 145 -150 CIC ....very nice but no cigar! Still it's the memory of stalking it rather than the absolute score.

 

[Fester]

Hi Mr Fish
Yes hes a big lad & very intimidating looking down on you isnt he
I sure would not of liked to of been on the receiving end of them antlers.
Can you remember how many points it has by any chance
James
A very handsom beast you shot there. Any idea on a rough age of him
Im not surprised you have a smile on your face

 

[stone]

thanks paul
i think i will get some one to look at the head and see if it is worth measuring

It would need to be over 39" on each side with brow tines of at least 14" and everything else right to go close to a bronze which starts at 165 CIC outside Scotland.

Yours is nicely symetrical with good beams and longish brow and bey tines but I would guess the beams aren't much more than 36". I reckon it might go 145 -150 CIC ....very nice but no cigar! Still it's the memory of stalking it rather than the absolute score.

i shall measure it tomorrow just out of interest, as you say paul it was the chance to stalk such a handsome beast i went for not a medal as this was my first ever stag and it will be hard to beat the memories i hav of it
many regards stone

 

[JH83]

Hi guys,

The stag was not a Lowther stag, as Paul says they are much closer to scottish animals as the terrain is very Highland-ish up there. Never stalked there but stalked on Shap fell adjacent to it and there is some fantstic sport to be had, loads of deer there as well. Would love to stalk Lowther, the head stalker is very well known and highly regarded.

My animal is a nice old boy from the forests of the South Lakes.

Stone, he is a big ugly bugger isnt he? And I sure aint talking about the stag!! Just checked out your stag in the trophy room, what a belter. Its the width of the beams that is really impressive.

Steyr, the stalker where I shot him estimated about 16-17 years old, a real seasoned campaigner. The head was 12 points, but he was clearly going back fast and was missing his left brow, looks like damage in velvet to me. In his prime I suspect he was a 16 pointer, and probably 375-385lbs, a real monster.

Still, he was taken at the right time of his life, and knew nothing about it as I stalked up behind him and necked him at 20 yards, out like a light. A fitting end to a fantastic beast!

Cheers

James.

 

[paul k]

Here's a story of one that I didn't get but still forms one of my best stalking memories.

I was out on the Devon/Somerset border at the start of the rut and had been told that there was a good stag in the area that I could take. As with many parts of Devon the ground was open fields on the top of the hill with a wooded valley below and the deer came up through the woods to feed in the fields and vice versa.

It was just getting light, I could hear a stag roaring quite a long way down into the wood and I started to stalk down into the wood but it was a shooting wood at the start of the season and I was disturbing pheasants with almost every step. I know that the deer were probably used to it but I didn't feel comfortable and when I spooked a spiker coming up towards me I decided to retreat back to the high seat on the edge of the wood.

I had two avenues of fire from the high seat, one directly in front and parallel to the edge of the field as the deer crossed the ride to step out into the field. I had another at 90 degrees down into the wood between the trees planted in rows. The stag was still occasionally roaring with no replies but coming up through the wood in my direction.

After a while I heard a heavy animal coming up through the wood and expected it to cross into the field in front of me. The noise stopped and I could see nothing. Then I noticed an antler sticking out from behind a tree at about 45 degrees to me and 60 odd yards away. I looked with my binos and could also see the hind quarters of a stag standing perfectly still. The antler I could see had five good points on it and I couldn't see the other at all nor could I see any vital area.

Nothing happened for a few minutes and I thought I might be able to shoot if he took just one pace forward. I raised my rifle and eased off the safety but he suddenly shot across the gap and moved as if he was going to pass through the gap in the trees at 90 degrees to me.

Again he stopped before crossing the gap, he was now barely 30 yards away and I took aim on the gap and waited. Again he shot across the gap without pausing and I had no chance.

I could hear him moving on at a fairly gentle pace and very carefully climbed out of the high seat taking care not to let any part of my rifle touch the metal. When I reached the ground I checked the wind and it was in my favour, I started to track the stag, parallel and about 30 yards to one side, I occasionally got a glimpse of his rear end but still couldn't see the whole beast.

I tracked that animal for another 10 minutes without ever getting a clear shot and he finally disappeared into some rhodedendrons and I never saw him again.

The stalker later told me that he had 6 points on the other side and my mate had picked up a spiker, possibly the one that I spooked.

That still rates as one of my best stalks and I never pulled the trigger.

 

[Beowulf]

I quote James H:-'Still, he was taken at the right time of his life, and knew nothing about it as I stalked up behind him and necked him at 20 yards, out like a light. A fitting end to a fantastic beast!'

Thats beautiful mate, if I ever had the chance at a big Red Stag that's what I would want to do.

That's a very good account Paul K, I bet the old heart was pumping on that stalk!

 

[JH83]

Great account Paul, some of my most vivid memories are those of blank days, like spending 3 hours lieing on my belly in a peat bog stalking hinds on the hill only to get spotted by a old hind in the last few yards of the stalk! Bloody sharp old hinds!

Cheers Mr B, it was fantastic day, hugely exciting as there were stags roaring everywhere which really gets the pulse going. I was stalking a different stag at the time, this one was layed up behind a large rock and we nearly stalked right on top of him, we just saw the tops of his antlers poking above the top of the rock at the last moment. The sudden realistion that he was there was immense, waiting for the stalker to go ahead to glass him and decided if he was a cull beast heightened the excitement, had to take a moment to compose myself to take the shot.

Good times.

JH.

 

[Beowulf]

JH,
Mate I think if I was in your position, I'd have fainted! What a rush!

 

[stone]

right i hav measured the antlers today
points : 12 (6 aside)
length of beams :L 31" R 30 1/2"
brow tines: 11 1/2"
bey tines : 11 1/2"
width between beams : 31 1/2"
head weight 50lbs approx
body weight 375lbs approx
total weight 425lbs approx(gralloched)
not as big a head as i thought but still an impressive trophy for me to look and remember over a glass or two
we sat for 1 and a half hours not more than 40yards away only hearing his roar and the odd cough, pin pointing his position by the movement of the saplings he was thrashing at , all of a sudden he appeared and i shot him in less than a minute of seeing him for the first time at just 34yrds

 

[paul k]

Stone,

If you can supply the following I can give you an approximate score

Circumference of both coronets
Circumference of both lower beams (narrowest place between brow and trey)
Circumference of both upper beams (narrowest place between trey and tops)

I found an article on Lyme Park in the Winter 2007 Deer magasine and it has a couple of photos of Lyme stags whose heads bear a strong similarity to yours being very long in the brow and bey in relation to the overall length so your stag might owe more of its genetic heritage to Lyme Park than I first thought.

The article also says that Lyme Park stags reach weights of 450lbs which makes yours a big boy and maybe only a very big Devon stag would weigh more as a wild beast.

 

[stone]

many thanks paul
that is my job during break time tommorow
stone

 

[stone]

Stone,

If you can supply the following I can give you an approximate score

Circumference of both coronets
Circumference of both lower beams (narrowest place between brow and trey)
Circumference of both upper beams (narrowest place between trey and tops)
.

sorry paul i seem to hav cocked up the measurements , must of been to much wine
so i shall start again

left beam 27" right beam 29" in length

left coronet 10" right coronet 9 1/2"

left brow 12" right brow 11 1/2"

secondry brow left 10" right 9"

lower beam both sides 5 1/2" equal

upper beam both sides 5 1/2" equal

left brey 14" right brey 11"

width of antlers 27"

many thanks stone

 

[paul k]

Stone,

I've run the measurements and making what I could of the subjective elements from the photo I reckon your head would score around 144.7 CIC points assuming the skull and antlers weighed about 5.5kg.

If that's wrong you add 1 points for every 500grm heavier and deduct 1 points for every 500grm less (intermediate differences pro rata e.g. 0.5 point for 250 gms).

A very nice head, about 20 points short of a bronze.

Cheers

 

[stone]

thanks for that paul
i shall weigh it in the week
ATB
stone

 

[stone]

thanks paul
i am out with the same stalker on sunday after CWD does, so i will ask him to see if he can shed any more light on the subject,

stone

hi paul
the stalker whom i shot this red with says it is likely to be a descendant of the swytham herd which puts them back to lyme park , so your hunch of lyme park breeding was spot on
many thanks
stone

 

[paul k]

thanks for that paul
i shall weigh it in the week
ATB
stone

You might also be able to squeeze a few more points out depending on the way you measured the beams, brows and treys etc.

For the brows you measure from the upper edge of the coronet to the tip up the underside of th tine.

For the trey you measure from the "point of eruption" which is easier than it sounds. Draw a chalk line down side of the tine to where it meets a similar line drawn down the centre of the beam. Then draw another line that splits the angle between the first two - where this hits the edge of the beam below the tine is the point of eruption. Measure from here along the uderside of the tine to the tip.

For the beams measure along the outside of the beam from a point level with the underside of the coronet to the tip of the longest tine on the crown allowing the tape to fall over the coronet into the beam without pressing it in.

 

[stone]

yes you could be right here paul , there is definately room for a few more points but not enough to make a medal , but thank you for all your help as i hav learnt alot on this paticular thread and hav written most of it down for further reference
most gratefull
stone

 

[paul k]

If you want to know more about measuring you could do worse that get Dominic Griffith's book "Deer Management - Quality in Southern England" which has detailed instructions for each species.

 

[Limpo]

I live just down the road from Endsleigh and you have to see that head to believe it, we get some massive deer here. The first time I went to Scotland the guy I was staying with was boasting he had just shot a huge stag, went and had a look at it hung and nearly burst out laughing. Ive had a few big stags in my sights over the years but the only one I ever shot had been properly beaten up by a smaller stag and was on his last legs with septic wounds all over it. I only shoot the odd pricket for the freezer. I saw a pair of Stags around Lydford in Devon over a couple of years that were huge then I found their heads still in velvet dumped in the woods when I was pigeon shooting, poached out of season. The Warrener who I'm sure most shooters have heard of with his videos and write ups in the Countrymans weekly lives up the road close to Endsleigh and he was on Spotlight local news a few years back telling of a white Stag that was poached, I think at Werrington which he said was also a very big Stag. Werrington has been known for white stags over the years, funnily enough the only White Stag I've ever seen was just before Christmas in mid Devon which was also a.big beast which shows most of us aren't just about the trophies and love just to see these magnificent animals. I'm very lucky to live where I do (not that I often get a chance at the Reds which usually end up in game dealers larders being shot in bulk by a handful of people), and over the years I have seen several really big Stags, I was a woodsman for most of my working life, and its quite amazing how these huge animals can lose themselves in a small patch of brambles.
Back to the Endsleigh Stag I am sure that Horace Adams who was the the bailiff at Endsleigh all his life until his death a few years back says in his book that he was the one that harboured the Endsleigh Stag for his Lordship to shoot, obviously differing from the story at the top of this page. I will try and dig the book out and post what he said on here.
I have enjoyed reading this thread and thanks to everyone who has contributed.