Register of competent deer stalkers - results?

[Conor O'Gorman]

I’m sure we will soon be reminded that BASC has been consistent in opposing a ban on the use of lead based ammunition.

It is a simple fact though that when one offers something voluntarily it often becomes MANDATORY.
Therefore it was easily predicted (by me and many many others) that the voluntary transition away from lead would soon lead to a legal ban on its use.

This has come to pass and by all indications will soon be imposed.

Correct, BASC has been consistent in opposing bans on the use of lead ammunition since the 1980s.

Here is an article that underlines this:

Lead Shot: A Historical Reflection

In this blog, BASC Scotland director, Dr Colin Shedden, explores BASC’s long-standing involvement with lead shot and how the policy and science has evolved over the years.

basc.org.uk

Here is a timeline from WWT:

How did we get here? The campaign to ban lead ammunition

How did we get here?

features.wwt.org.uk

If you still consider the voluntary transition away from lead shot in the UK as prompting worldwide moves away from lead shot past, present and future, then that is your choice, but it's perhaps not a very logical POV.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

Personal experience.of BASC lies ...take your money then do sum of sweet f*ck all when you turn to them for advice or / help ....
That episode was rectified fully and with zero help from them at all ....
Will never give a penny again
SGA are truthful on phone, actually help and don't throw their members under a bus without consultation
And I see them far more in public eye , online doing more for the working man / shooter

Paul

Hi Paul, I am sorry to hear that, if you would like to PM me the details I can look into it for you.

 

[bottletopbill]

So lets start getting facts together to see if we can make any changes

 

[hendrix's rifle]

I think you are confusing youself by conflating the words 'ban' and 'voluntary' by stating 'voluntary ban'. I will ask you the same question that @Chris Richardson has so far been unable to answer....has anyone forced you to stop using lead shot for live quarry shooting since February 2020?

Well yes, yes they are whether you like it or not, BASC appear to have kicked this full thing off (as per) with the announcement of a voluntary ban.

Don't treat us like we're stupid because we see things differently to your rose tinted specs. No doubt you will say how 'offensive' that is and how people are 'bullying' (speaking truths and being entitled to have an opinion) but the constant failure from you to realise the damage you're doing is genuinely laughable. There was even a poll that outlined how unhappy people were with BASC and you still refused to listen. Go take a hard look in the mirror and open your bloody eyes.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

But then i do know a few things about a few , and clear reasons why i left BASC after maybe 35 years plus at a guess ?

To be fair, I don't recall why you left BASC after 35 years support and perhaps you could PM me why, if nothing else but to improve my understanding of when things go wrong for some members, and to share with colleagues in the hope to avoid that for others.

 

[hendrix's rifle]

So lets start getting facts together to see if we can make any changes

BASC has already thrown us to the wolves. Far far too late for that. Whilst we were after orgs doing the right thing, they've hung us out to dry by ticking whatever box fits their own agenda. Absolute whoppers the lot of em. And to have the cheek to then DENY it on here? They won't even release the meeting minutes

And Conor, before you post them again, how about you post the unredacted ones that allow us to see the discussion on the lead ban oh wait, I know why you won't....

 

[hendrix's rifle]

No, you did not paraphrase, you attributed a successful BASC campaign to the SGA. Please be factual in your comments.

Be factual in your comments and you might get the same back. There are numerous of us that have been factual but you'd rather stick your head in the sand whilst screaming BASC is right..

 

[Chris Richardson]

So lets start getting facts together to see if we can make any changes

Good idea let’s follow Connor’s advice of rejoining so basc can have some more pennies

 

[Chris Richardson]

To be fair, I don't recally why you left BASC after 35 years support and perhaps you could PM me why, if nothing else but to improve my understanding of when things go wrong for some members, and to share with colleagues in the hope to avoid that for others.

Nah f&£k pms let’s have it all out here for all to see

 

[VSS]

In opposition to many on here, I think that BASC are taking the correct stance over lead.
But having said that, I think that in many other ways they're not representative of the average shooter, and there are individual members of BASC staff who's attitude is frankly damaging to shooting sports.
With regard to the register of competent stalkers (which is, after all, what this thread is supposed to be about), I think it was a swift move on the part of BASC to pre-empt another organisation from bringing out a similar (and much more carefully thought out) scheme, and that is an example of one of the problems at the heart of our various organisations: They spend time trying to outdo one another, rather than backing each other up and supporting each other's schemes for the overall good of shooting sports.
Instead of trying to compete, each should stick to what it does best, rather than trying to dominate, or alternatively join forces.

 

[Chris Richardson]

In opposition to many on here, I think that BASC are taking the correct stance over lead.
But having said that, I think that in many other ways they're not representative of the average shooter, and there are individual members of BASC staff who's attitude is frankly damaging to shooting sports.
With regard to the register of competent stalkers (which is, after all, what this thread is supposed to be about), I think it was a swift move on the part of BASC to pre-empt another organisation from bringing out a similar (and much more carefully thought out) scheme, and that is an example of one of the problems at the heart of our various organisations: They spend time trying to outdo one another, rather than backing each other up and supporting each other's schemes for the overall good of shooting sports.
Instead of trying to compete, each should stick to what it does best, or alternatively join forces.

Do you agree with the lack of consultation Tim over such a big issue or the minutes being confidential?

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

Come on folks you are never going to agree lets call a truce now for the sake of shooting.

If I were you, I’d grab a tin hat and a flat jacket and head for the shelter, this is the one subject that will plague BASC for as long as they operate, and the criticism will never cease

 

[Chris Richardson]

If I were you, I’d grab a tin hat and a flat jacket and head for the shelter, this is the one subject that will plague BASC for as long as they operate, and the criticism will never cease

Rightly so

 

[VSS]

Do you agree with the lack of consultation Tim over such a big issue or the minutes being confidential?

No I don't.
But I personally have no objection to the change, I don't think it's anywhere near such a big issue as shooters like to think it is, and I believe that a transition period is the correct way to handle it. The writing has been on the wall for lead for 40 years, and it's through no fault of mine that dealing with it has been left until the 11th hour.
But BASC should be open about the decision making process that has resulted in them taking their current stance (whatever we may, as individuals, think of that stance).

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

If you wish to change BASC, then shouting from outside is not going to work. The first thing should be to join, then to get yourself known via both traditional and social media, ready for Council elections next spring. You could also put forward one or two radical proposals to the 2026 AGM which could be used to promote you and your ideas to potential supporters.
Having got elected (might not happen the at the first attempt), you then need to convince fellow Council members of your ideas for change. They are there because they too care about shooting so they should listen. "Letting rip" etc. only works once as you need to do something once you have attracted everybody's attention.
The route to change probably still includes gaining a position on the Executive and Finance Committee of Council.

I was fortunate as a teenager to see a little of some of the men who served on the old WAGBI management committee such as John Carter and Bill Bailey. They had fought in the real war and then in the lesser war over the 1954 bird protection act. They cared. Do I think that the later generations care any less ? Of course not, and I have known a few Council members over the years including one (the late Bill Notton) who resigned in frustration. I even helped some of them get elected but that is history.
If you want change then it is up to you to make the case. This can be challenging as in my experience people in general do not like radical change.
I well remember Kes/Triton who was forever on here shouting from the touchline but would not even try to get on the pitch as "they" would send him off.
But I also remember the late and great Colin Greenwood whose persistence caused the creation of the BASC Firearms Department which is one of its more useful features.

However, if you don't like BASC and are not a member then that's fine. But we heard you the first time.

Well said Basil, and I regard myself fortunate to have had the opportunities of listening and learning from a generation of wildfowlers across the UK that put in the time managing clubs and influencing BASC, in their own time, as volunteers.

It is frustrating, but understandable, that with the advent of social media, including SD, that people consider having a rant is having influence. The hard yards of infuence are not achieved from a few rants on a forum. It's been many years since SD produced a Council member.

 

[Chris Richardson]

No I don't.
But I personally have no objection to the change, I don't think it's anywhere near such a big issue as shooters like to think it is, and I believe that a transition period is the correct way to handle it. The writing has been on the wall for lead for 40 years, and it's through no fault of mine that dealing with it has been left until the 11th hour.
But BASC should be open about the decision making process that has resulted in them taking their current stance (whatever we may, as individuals, think of that stance).

Ah but they’re not transparent are they … that’s one of the biggest problems isn’t it , we know best …. Why ? We don’t have to tell you why …. Still at least it’s democratic

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

So let me get this right if BASC membership driven organisation, and their members pay very handsomely for their membership rights, what gives BASC the right to make decisions without full consultation of the members?

Basically, they opened their trap thinking it was a good idea and it bit them in the arse, and all they’ve done ever since is backtrack and try to B/S their way out of a proper a situation to which it’s failing because they’re constantly reminded and quite rightly so that they ****ed up!

 

[Chris Richardson]

Well said Basil, and I regard myself fortunate to have had the opportunities of listening and learning from a generation of wildfowlers across the UK that put in the time managing clubs and influencing BASC, in their own time, as volunteers.

It is frustrating, but understandable, that with the advent of social media, including SD, that people consider having a rant is having influence. The hard yards of infuence are not achieved from a few rants on a forum. It's been many years since SD produced a Council member.

Still cherry picking our responses I see … still I guess the truth must be difficult

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

It's been many years since SD produced a Council member.

I was going to pay and rejoin BASC and apply to become a council member, but in reality it would be a waste of money and time and effort because I would only last all of around five minutes in the first meeting to which I would hear a colossal amount of then I would voice my opinion to which wouldn’t be pretty and most would be offended by my choice of language but that is just the way I am and I would be asked not to return!

Also, I have been advised that it is a waste of my time even thinking about it.

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

Still cherry picking our responses I see … still I guess the truth must be difficult

That’s what paid arse cover’ers do!

Smoke and mirrors