Freeforester
Well-Known Member
Er, what's not to 'like'? 
Tim, I owe you an apology, lol!
Tim, I owe you an apology, lol!Registering as a food business - direct supply
- Thread starter 75
- Start date
@theroedeerguy
Well-Known Member
Home | Wild Deer Best Practice Guidance
www.bestpracticeguides.org.uk
Definitive answer???
Freeforester
Well-Known Member
Seems like Slider's LA is not in possession/observation of the full picture; this was the reason I was asking, really, as if you can comply with all the food side regs but not be registered as a LVD then it is wide open for potential abuse (in Scotland).Home | Wild Deer Best Practice Guidance
Definitive answer???
Thanks for posting the BP guidelines, thought about taking a snap of my page and posting, but the link works well, and is clear about the situation as regards stalkers cutting their own product in Scotland.
Would Slider not be best to advise his LA/EHO of this stipulation/requirement?
I did and as I have already said the EHO then consulted the LA's legal advisers who were content that, in their interpretation of the legislation, a VDL was not required
Erik Hamburger
Well-Known Member
This issue keeps coming up again and again. From my own experience, it is quite easy to customise a HACCP procedure to your circumstances and objectives, document it, and lodge it with your local EHO (use ''To Be Signed For post!).
It is very easy to buy a dedicated Game Larder. (OK, there is a cost...)
It is quite easy to become a 'Registered Food Premises'
Local Authorities are not very experienced with Game and the 'consultation' I have gone through was more about me showing them the Wild Game Guidance and telling them what I was going to do rather than about them 'inspecting' me.
With all the noises being made on the forums about venison prices being rock-bottom, I can tell you that a typical Roe, once butchered and split up in cuts/joints, sells for around £160 - a heavy set one can go for £190. I have an email-list of private customers who get an email alert when I have fresh wild venison available, and usually it sells out within hours, and customers are reserving cuts/joints from the next carcass before I have shot it. A nice position to be in.
The Food Hygiene Module of the DSC1 is a joke - you need to do some self study and follow a few courses and understand kitchen/food hygiene and safety a bit better than those very modest basics deal with.
It also helps if you are a confident cook and are quite experienced with cooking game - as you will get lots of questions of 'How do I...' etc.
Finally your knife skills (butchery skills) matter. You'll need a basic skills level as a starting point. Doing a field gralloch is one thing, cutting up a carcass and presenting it professionally is another thing altogether.
PS. I have been to 'demo's' organised by organisations (no names) where a group of stalkers is shown 'how to butcher a deer', and on a few occasions they butchered an OUT OF SEASON animal that was shot -because the estate stalker couldn't find one that was in season that morning' (really!) , showing a gralloch where the guts were busted and the poo pellets rolled into the carcass, and generally making a mess of it. Very embarrassing.
It is very easy to buy a dedicated Game Larder. (OK, there is a cost...)
It is quite easy to become a 'Registered Food Premises'
Local Authorities are not very experienced with Game and the 'consultation' I have gone through was more about me showing them the Wild Game Guidance and telling them what I was going to do rather than about them 'inspecting' me.
With all the noises being made on the forums about venison prices being rock-bottom, I can tell you that a typical Roe, once butchered and split up in cuts/joints, sells for around £160 - a heavy set one can go for £190. I have an email-list of private customers who get an email alert when I have fresh wild venison available, and usually it sells out within hours, and customers are reserving cuts/joints from the next carcass before I have shot it. A nice position to be in.
The Food Hygiene Module of the DSC1 is a joke - you need to do some self study and follow a few courses and understand kitchen/food hygiene and safety a bit better than those very modest basics deal with.
It also helps if you are a confident cook and are quite experienced with cooking game - as you will get lots of questions of 'How do I...' etc.
Finally your knife skills (butchery skills) matter. You'll need a basic skills level as a starting point. Doing a field gralloch is one thing, cutting up a carcass and presenting it professionally is another thing altogether.
PS. I have been to 'demo's' organised by organisations (no names) where a group of stalkers is shown 'how to butcher a deer', and on a few occasions they butchered an OUT OF SEASON animal that was shot -because the estate stalker couldn't find one that was in season that morning' (really!) , showing a gralloch where the guts were busted and the poo pellets rolled into the carcass, and generally making a mess of it. Very embarrassing.
Exactly what @Erik Hamburger said 
The HACCP kindly provided by members here is fine....in fact more than fine. The EHO who visited me - and who specialises in these type of inspections, including doing those outside her "home" turf - was more than happy with it.
Installing a game larder/prep area is straightforwards.
It is simple to register as a food business - it costs nothing and the registration itself cannot be refused.
Do a food hygiene course. As Erik says, the hygiene element of the DSC1 is only designed to satisfy the minimum requirements to be recognised as a Trained Hunter for Large Game. No more, no less.
Speak to the EHO. The time invested up front will more than repay the effort. The visit I had was extremely useful and I learned a lot. The EHO's are not there to test you, but to make sure you meet the requirements of the regulations.
Prepare everything in advance. For example I put a folder together containing the HACCP report, relevant training certificates, examples of the food labels I will use, and any other supporting documentation. I had the laptop open and ready with the spreadsheet I use to log carcasses - it's the same one used to keep track of all the stalking outings. I could thus show how each carcass is allocated a unique ID when received into the larder, how this then gets translated to the carcass tag, and how it then gets printed on the food labels.
I invested in a couple of temperature loggers for the chiller and another for the freezer - these automatically produce a PDF report (showing the temperature recorded several times per day) when plugged into the USB port on the laptop. They cost less than 20 quid each, but you can do the same job if you are happy recording the temperatures manually. Again pre-formatted sheets are available if you prefer to keep manual records.
I am still learning. I am a recreational stalker, but with a cull target to meet. Since the successful EHO inspection I have been selling purely by word of mouth, though the price list I have put together will go out to my contacts by the end of this month. I currently only shoot one or two deer a week, and if I can build up enough business to clear the venison from these I will have reached my goal. It is enough work to keep me interested, but not enough that it is a chore. I realise that puts me in a fortunate position, but I'd rather make the effort than get perhaps a fiver for a muntjac carcass from the AGHE - there isn't one nearby and the travel costs would mean every carcass costs me money.
The HACCP kindly provided by members here is fine....in fact more than fine. The EHO who visited me - and who specialises in these type of inspections, including doing those outside her "home" turf - was more than happy with it.
Installing a game larder/prep area is straightforwards.
It is simple to register as a food business - it costs nothing and the registration itself cannot be refused.
Do a food hygiene course. As Erik says, the hygiene element of the DSC1 is only designed to satisfy the minimum requirements to be recognised as a Trained Hunter for Large Game. No more, no less.
Speak to the EHO. The time invested up front will more than repay the effort. The visit I had was extremely useful and I learned a lot. The EHO's are not there to test you, but to make sure you meet the requirements of the regulations.
Prepare everything in advance. For example I put a folder together containing the HACCP report, relevant training certificates, examples of the food labels I will use, and any other supporting documentation. I had the laptop open and ready with the spreadsheet I use to log carcasses - it's the same one used to keep track of all the stalking outings. I could thus show how each carcass is allocated a unique ID when received into the larder, how this then gets translated to the carcass tag, and how it then gets printed on the food labels.
I invested in a couple of temperature loggers for the chiller and another for the freezer - these automatically produce a PDF report (showing the temperature recorded several times per day) when plugged into the USB port on the laptop. They cost less than 20 quid each, but you can do the same job if you are happy recording the temperatures manually. Again pre-formatted sheets are available if you prefer to keep manual records.
I am still learning. I am a recreational stalker, but with a cull target to meet. Since the successful EHO inspection I have been selling purely by word of mouth, though the price list I have put together will go out to my contacts by the end of this month. I currently only shoot one or two deer a week, and if I can build up enough business to clear the venison from these I will have reached my goal. It is enough work to keep me interested, but not enough that it is a chore. I realise that puts me in a fortunate position, but I'd rather make the effort than get perhaps a fiver for a muntjac carcass from the AGHE - there isn't one nearby and the travel costs would mean every carcass costs me money.
@theroedeerguy
Well-Known Member
Just an update for any SCOTTISH based stalkers thinking of selling any venison.
You are required to be registered as both a food business and as an authorised venison dealer in order to sell venison.
Regards
BP
You are required to be registered as both a food business and as an authorised venison dealer in order to sell venison.
Regards
BP
Exactly as the previous poster says , The wording says that ALL venison bought or sold in Scotland must pass through
a registered venison dealer so if buying venison you must buy from a registered dealer if selling you can only
sell to a registered dealer or you must be a registered dealer.
Check the law it states it quite clearly
a registered venison dealer so if buying venison you must buy from a registered dealer if selling you can only
sell to a registered dealer or you must be a registered dealer.
Check the law it states it quite clearly
Just a quick update - all sorted and fairly painless (if slightly slow) process. As previously mentioned, I'm apparently the only Food Business registered with Manchester City Council for this purpose. They're more used to dealing with kebab shops and takeaways so it took them a little longer as the EHO had to do bits of research at each stage. She was really helpful and kept me informed all the way though. A couple of points that caused the most discussion / concern:
1. Labelling - there's a separate thread running on label printers with some good examples of labels. Mine have: cut, best before (7 days from butchery), my name, contact number and postcode. I sell by piece rather than weight (i.e. a haunch / 2x steaks etc rather than per kilo) but include the weight for info where it's relevant (500g of stewing for example). This is fine for direct supply to end user but labelling requirements are far more onerous if I supply to a retailer who then sells on (e.g. to a butchers or farm shop). I agreed in these instances that I'd supply as larger joints and let them prepare and package, or use their labels. In this case, I'd ensure full traceability with a covering letter with details of what / when etc.
2. Mince and sausages - my HACCP originally included sausage making. The EHO was concerned about this as a) labelling then becomes more complex around allergens and b) mince and sausage making is considered "higher risk" from a food hygiene perspective and needed more controls in place. In the end I just removed this and will only supply prime cuts.
1. Labelling - there's a separate thread running on label printers with some good examples of labels. Mine have: cut, best before (7 days from butchery), my name, contact number and postcode. I sell by piece rather than weight (i.e. a haunch / 2x steaks etc rather than per kilo) but include the weight for info where it's relevant (500g of stewing for example). This is fine for direct supply to end user but labelling requirements are far more onerous if I supply to a retailer who then sells on (e.g. to a butchers or farm shop). I agreed in these instances that I'd supply as larger joints and let them prepare and package, or use their labels. In this case, I'd ensure full traceability with a covering letter with details of what / when etc.
2. Mince and sausages - my HACCP originally included sausage making. The EHO was concerned about this as a) labelling then becomes more complex around allergens and b) mince and sausage making is considered "higher risk" from a food hygiene perspective and needed more controls in place. In the end I just removed this and will only supply prime cuts.
Congratulations on getting it all sorted 
quick couple of requests
with regard Wullie Gunn to the temperature loggers you got that print out pdf etc .......got a link ?
and for you guys already registered.... Food labels !..... which printer are you guys using?
i have a dymo label writer 450 and used up till now for home use 36mm x89mm labels ....but with requirements for food business and info neede don labels mine will need to be bigger ..... what machines / printers are you guys using ?
Paul
with regard Wullie Gunn to the temperature loggers you got that print out pdf etc .......got a link ?
and for you guys already registered.... Food labels !..... which printer are you guys using?
i have a dymo label writer 450 and used up till now for home use 36mm x89mm labels ....but with requirements for food business and info neede don labels mine will need to be bigger ..... what machines / printers are you guys using ?
Paul
Freeforester
Well-Known Member
Avery Berkell thermal weighing labelling printers are bombproof, can be multi programmed and handle all you can throw at it.
Got a like new spare one here, as it happens…
Got a like new spare one here, as it happens…
I fine it adequate, if fact too big when you but labels on small packs of meat.
phillips321
Well-Known Member
I'm also looking for the HACCP template if at all possible. @willie_gun7 and @devon deer stalker if you have it?
pm me an email address
About to go through the same process with Warwickshire. I've sent you a pm if you'd be so kind to send me a copy also please.
ATB
Similar threads
