Rfd to Rfd transfers

[mealiejimmy]

Some people should get out shooting more.

Ignorance of the law is no excuse and when it comes to firearms, that's particularly true
If you can't be bothered to spend some time finding out how to stay on the right side of the law - don't come moaning on here when the cops take your guns away because you couldn't be a**ed to find out the right way to do things


Cheers

Bruce

 

[243ack]

Ignorance of the law is no excuse and when it comes to firearms, that's particularly true
If you can't be bothered to spend some time finding out how to stay on the right side of the law - don't come moaning on here when the cops take your guns away because you couldn't be a**ed to find out the right way to do things


Cheers

Bruce

Thank you, Bruce, for the most polite and inciteful rhetoric. I have been a (troublefree) RFD for over 20 years.
I repeat: some folk should get out more.

 

[tim@tcs]

And if after visiting your friendly RFD you do not like the firearm then what? will you pay your friendly RFD to return the firearm and why would the distant seller part with the firearm without first receiving payment?

You miss the point, to be honest ownership isnt an issue. A lot of the gun trade relies on goodwill and trust. Otherwise how do you get to leave a rifle for rebarrelling with only a deposit?

 

[tim@tcs]

The law says that the seller fills in the table on your FAC not some random other RFD.

The only way you can do it the old style (which while it was done was not correct by the law) is if the local RFD purchases the rifle from the remote person and then the local RFD sells it to you, in that case there are two transfers going on that need to be reported to the police and they are the seller to you.

Not quite as dealer to dealer transfers are not notifiable.

 

[cjm1066]

RFD transfer is exactly that, they undertake it for a small fee.

The fee is almost certainly less than the mark up would be if they had it on the books and sold it.

 

[tim@tcs]

RFD transfer is exactly that, they undertake it for a small fee.

The fee is almost certainly less than the mark up would be if they had it on the books and sold it.

It usually is limited to the cost of shipping if you are friends

 

[pirtoo]

Not quite as dealer to dealer transfers are not notifiable.

The two cases I am talking about are the current normal:
B buys from A, A takes it to RFD X, who sends it to RFD Y. B collects from RFD Y with FAC filled in by A).
A reports buying from B. B reports buying from A.
One transfer, two notifications.

Or alternatively: RFD Y buys from A. A takes it to RFD X who sends it to RFD Y. B purchases from RFD Y. RFD Y fills in FAC since they are the seller.
Y reports buying from A. A reports selling to Y.
B reports buying from Y. Y reports selling to B.
Two transfers, four notifications.

Nowhere am I talking about RFD to RFD transfers being notifiable.

 

[Liveonce]

You miss the point, to be honest ownership isnt an issue. A lot of the gun trade relies on goodwill and trust. Otherwise how do you get to leave a rifle for rebarrelling with only a deposit?

really i think you miss the point, private seller with his £3000 gun is asked to take it to his local rfd for them to send it to the potential buyers rfd for the potential buyer to look at and possibly walk away without buying it, prey tell who picks up the bill for the courier and what seller would part with their gun without payment.

Theirs goodwill and trust and plain stupidity.

 

[Liveonce]

The two cases I am talking about are the current normal:
B buys from A, A takes it to RFD X, who sends it to RFD Y. B collects from RFD Y with FAC filled in by A).
A reports selling to B. B reports buying from A.
One transfer, two notifications.

Or alternatively: RFD Y buys from A. A takes it to RFD X who sends it to RFD Y. B purchases from RFD Y. RFD Y fills in FAC since they are the seller.
Y reports buying from A. A reports selling to Y.
B reports buying from Y. Y reports selling to B.
Two transfers, four notifications.

Nowhere am I talking about RFD to RFD transfers being notifiable.

for you second situation, When RFD Y buyers from the seller are they now adding their profit? who pay the courier fees and RFD Y (seller) is now responsible under the sales of goods act if the gun is faulty, and what happens if B decided not to buy the gun?

The current process is as it is for many reasons.

 

[Jh1986]

Yep, had the same when I was exploring it as an option. I assumed that there would be a way for the seller to enter their RFD on their FAC and that RFD enter, your RFD, then they transfer to you

 

[shakey jake]

im amazed this keep cropping up. must be a few times a year. how is this a suprise?

 

[gixer1]

It's been that way for years.

Actually, it hasn’t - it’s only in certain counties in England….most other places can send RFD to RFD and then you collect it locally and they write it on your FAC…the need to post an FAC is nonsense.

Please explain what the issue is with an RFD sending a firearm to an RFD? Why would the FAc holder need to send anything to the sending RFD?

Regards,
Gixer

 

[gixer1]

The law has not changed, it is simply being more rigidly enforced.
If you were buying the rifle from the RFD who then sent it to your RFD for you to collect, then the correct procedure was being followed because it's the SELLER who has to complete the appropriate part of YOUR certificate - and your RFD is NOT the seller
If you had done a private deal which involved the private seller giving the rifle to his local RFD, who then sends it to your local RFD, you would have had to send you certificate to the private seller for him to complete the appropriate part of your certificate, send the certificate back to you and then when you go to collect the rifle from your local RFD he can see that the seller has put the rifle on your certificate

Cheers

Bruce

It doesn’t say the SELLER, it says “person selling or transferring firearm”….a local RFD to you is legally able to transfer a firearm….

Regards,
Gixer

 

[Bowland blades]

So, I have recently had a rifle transferred to my RFD. On attempting to collect it they advised they cant add it to my ticket as the law has changed.

Some genius has now decided that I have to post my FAC to a dealer who has never seen me, to enter the details of a firearm I have purchased and then post it back to me. I then go and take the now filled in ticket to a dealer who has seen me in person to collect said firearm.

Madness that could only be devised by the civil service. I mean what could go wrong ?

Yeah its true but there are ways and means . I am absolutely convinced that the plan is targeted towards no private firearms , wait till they get all the deer culled off , stopped us on UU etc . Think i will just begger off to some other nation because there will be very little left when the next lot of loonies get in Power
Last one out , please shut the light off !

 

[spanj]

Ignorance of the law is no excuse and when it comes to firearms, that's particularly true
If you can't be bothered to spend some time finding out how to stay on the right side of the law - don't come moaning on here when the cops take your guns away because you couldn't be a**ed to find out the right way to do things


Cheers

Bruce

Thats a mighty high pedestal you sit on Bruce. I suppose it begs a question of the sending RFD …..

 

[Liveonce]

this basc document is dated 2014 so been this way for awhile now.

https://basc.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/downloads/2014/08/REMOTE-FIREARMS-TRANSACTIONS2.pdf

 

[Jeff8861]

Nothing new mine was lost by royal mail I paid the 5 pound for another one. Week later the original arrived. No big deal

 

[kimh]

The law has not changed, it is simply being more rigidly enforced.
If you were buying the rifle from the RFD who then sent it to your RFD for you to collect, then the correct procedure was being followed because it's the SELLER who has to complete the appropriate part of YOUR certificate - and your RFD is NOT the seller
If you had done a private deal which involved the private seller giving the rifle to his local RFD, who then sends it to your local RFD, you would have had to send you certificate to the private seller for him to complete the appropriate part of your certificate, send the certificate back to you and then when you go to collect the rifle from your local RFD he can see that the seller has put the rifle on your certificate

Cheers

Bruce

CORRECT

 

[Heym SR20]

surely its just better to jump in car and drive to wherever the gun is. Give it a really good inspection and then purchase it.

Indeed if you are looking for something specific take time and visit your local gunshops. Chances are they will have what you are looking for on the shelf.

 

[mealiejimmy]

Actually, it hasn’t - it’s only in certain counties in England….most other places can send RFD to RFD and then you collect it locally and they write it on your FAC…the need to post an FAC is nonsense.

Please explain what the issue is with an RFD sending a firearm to an RFD? Why would the FAc holder need to send anything to the sending RFD?

Regards,
Gixer

The situation with sales and transfers is explained quite clearly in the FAC in the section titled Guidance for the holder of this certificate
The relevant parts are below:
Guidance to ANYONE who sells, lets on hire or lends firearms or ammunition:
1. YOU must complete each column in Table 1 Firearms or Table 2 Ammunition. i.e. it is the person selling, letting on hire or lending the firearm who completes table 1
5. If YOU are selling a firearm and/or ammunition which will be sent or posted to another dealer for the BUYER to collect in person, YOU should complete the tables and notify the police of the transaction. concerning the firearm. The dealer who actually hands over the firearm should NOT complete the tables or notify the police.
So, if you are buying a firearm in a private sale or from a remote RFD then your certificate has to be completed by the private seller or remote RFD.
To comply with that requirement means sending your FAC to the private seller or RFD selling the firearm - or travelling and doing a face to face transaction.

To be able to collect a firearm from your local RFD and have him complete Table 1 in your FAC requires the firearm to be recorded in the RFDs stock.
For that to happen he has to buy or transfer the firearm from a seller or remote RFD and enter it into his stock
The system as it is set up does not require the RFD to enter the firearm into his stock because the seller should already have notified his local police about the sale and the details of the new owner/keeper

Cheers

Bruce