Rifle, Scope and Bino's..help!!

[JAYB]

"Brithunter"

Now a lot of people don't know that BSA not only cut rifled their barrels but lapped them too something which is seen as a custom only option nowadays with the associated price tag until the CF2 line up which I believe have hammer forged barrels. .

Now I have learnt something and it pleases me no end. Yesterday I put my FAC in for variation, they were busy so they will post it next week for me, I love that Northern Constabulary. The thing is I have just been given a couple of rifles by an old farmer friend of mine a 22 rimfire and a 243 BSA, now as that means I shall have two 243's I was just going to keep my BRNO and trade the BSA against something else, I may now reconsider. I know for a fact that the gun has been in his gun cabinet for the last 20-25 years at least, but he is very proud of the fact that he once shot a Red stag that was wreaking havoc with his turnips That I do believe is it's only trip afield. Looking forward to it now.

John

 

[Brithunter]

John,

Check the serial number of the BSA especially the prefix as it will identify the model in .243 they go as follows:-

11A = Hunter (1958-66)
11B = Viscount (1958-66)
11D = Majestic (1959-66)
11E = Majestic (1960-70)
11L = Monarch 1st pat (1967-68)
11M = Monarch 1st pat (1967-70)
11P Monarch 2nd Pat (1970-74)
11R CF2 (1973-86)

By using the crossed lances in the Birmingham proof mark which is the Private View mark we can tell in which year the rifle was actually made.

As I see it you have a dilema as the Brno is a fine rifle in it's own right. The Poldi steel Brno used makes a fine barrel in it's own right. Cannot you keep both and have one for a moderator and one without?

 

[JAYB]

John,

Check the serial number of the BSA especially the prefix as it will identify the model in .243 they go as follows:-

11A = Hunter (1958-66)
11B = Viscount (1958-66)
11D = Majestic (1959-66)
11E = Majestic (1960-70)
11L = Monarch 1st pat (1967-68)
11M = Monarch 1st pat (1967-70)
11P Monarch 2nd Pat (1970-74)
11R CF2 (1973-86)

By using the crossed lances in the Birmingham proof mark which is the Private View mark we can tell in which year the rifle was actually made.

As I see it you have a dilema as the Brno is a fine rifle in it's own right. The Poldi steel Brno used makes a fine barrel in it's own right. Cannot you keep both and have one for a moderator and one without?

I could keep it and may well do, it has not been screw cut for a moderator . Anyway a good look at it and test run when I pick it up will aid my decision. I shall let you have the serial number and and other relevant details maybe you could let me know it's birthday

John

 

[Brithunter]

Just the view mark is needed to date it which is usually like this:-

Sometimes it's hard to see or read these view marks like on this majestic .

For a few years they did away with the lances and the letters and digit are found inside a circle or oval. The prefix of the serial number on the BSAs denotes the chambering and model the serial number itself is no help in this respect. The view mark dates the gun as to when it was proofed. I have one whcih is double stamped and almost impossible to read I think it's because it has a BESA recoil reducer and it's a fairly late Majestic so my thoughts are that it was taken out of stock and had the BESA added to meet an order to was re-submitted to proof then re-finished (blacked) before shipping.

Oh BSA have the view mark visable with the proof marks whilst Parker-Hale it seems had theirs under the barrel hidden by the wood.

Why they wanted a BESA on a .243 is beyond me but there you are people have some funny ideas no doubt mine seem funny to some here

 

[Dalua]

If I had to tool up on the budget suggested, I'd consider these points amongst others that have been raised.

Rifle/mod.
1. I'd think about a bigger cal than .243.
2. I'd consider a well-checked-out (incl. bore-scope!) s/h rifle. In this case, a less-fashionable calibre like .270 might make for a better bargain.
3. My rifles are all Sako, but if buying new nowadays, I'd consider Howa. That's only having looked at one at the range, I must add.
4. Threading work done only by a reputable smith.
5. Consider ASE Northstar mod.

Scope:
1. Top to middle quality: S&B, Zeiss, Swaro, Docter, Kahles, Pecar, Meopta.
2. s/h from a reputable source is a good option here, too. Macleods of Tain and York Guns have s/h listings on-line.
3. Fixed mag will save money and probably be no disadvantage. 8x perhaps too much for woodland? I use 6x on the hill, and I suppose 1.6-6x might be handy in a wood - guesswork, though, as I have never stalked in a wood.
4 Good mounts are essential, and not worth scrimping on.

Binoculars:
Any good make, including perhaps Optolyth.
Second-hand on-line at Kay Optical, London Camera Exchange as well as York and Macleods
I got a s/h pair of Swaro 7x42 for looking at things in woods. I have 10x bins for the hill, but find that's too much when things are closer. 8.5 might be a good compromise.
You'll be using the binoculars overwhelmingly more that the other bits of gear, so they do need to be good and well-suited to you.

 

[rockingod]

Hi Rigboot

For me........Sako85 s/s topped off with a S and B 8*56 30mm tube. On the front a T8 can.

Shoots straight out of the box. No bells.....No whistles and as the SAS boys say....remember the 'KISS' logic (Keep It Simple Stupid

Hope it helps
Rocky

 

[Dawnraider]

Hi Rigboot,by the sounds of the terrain a variable scope may be a better choice,screwed down low for close up work in denser cover, option to go up for a longer shot in open areas 3x9,3x12 something like that.As for rifle i'd try a few and see what feels right for you,there are some nice second hand rifles to be had if you look around a few dealers or guntrader,i was going to get a new x-bolt until i stumbled across a 2nd hand Sako deluxe in lovely nick so i had to have it.Personally i am not a fan of moderators on a stalking rifle money better spent on optics initially,you can always add one later if you really feel the need for one,but do ask for one when you apply for your FAC then its there if you need it.The other thing your going to need is decent set of mounts don't scrimp on mounts always a false economy.
ATB Neil

 

[jingzy]

"Brithunter"

Now a lot of people don't know that BSA not only cut rifled their barrels but lapped them too something which is seen as a custom only option nowadays with the associated price tag until the CF2 line up which I believe have hammer forged barrels. .

Now I have learnt something and it pleases me no end. Yesterday I put my FAC in for variation, they were busy so they will post it next week for me, I love that Northern Constabulary. The thing is I have just been given a couple of rifles by an old farmer friend of mine a 22 rimfire and a 243 BSA, now as that means I shall have two 243's I was just going to keep my BRNO and trade the BSA against something else, I may now reconsider. I know for a fact that the gun has been in his gun cabinet for the last 20-25 years at least, but he is very proud of the fact that he once shot a Red stag that was wreaking havoc with his turnips That I do believe is it's only trip afield. Looking forward to it now.

John

I have also learnt something, so cheers Brit. I am also picking up a S/H BSA JAYB. Mine is also .243 and nearly untouched, though the wood nowhere near as good as Brithunters.

Brithunter,
I have 2 S/H rifles, one is synthetic and the wife thinks it came from Woolies . It is in 6PPC and is an excellent calibre. I can t wait to teach my son with it.
The second is a Sako .243 from 1984 which is the British Deer Societies 20th Anniversary Prize, which I was lucky enough to find. The wood is stunning and it is in the original condition with the exception that someone has bedded the action. It is silky smooth with the barrel engraved and is a model 1 of 1.

I meant to rebarrel it, but I cant as it is a beautiful piece of workmanship, and accurate. I will put up a photo if the thread continues, and I bring it out to look at it .

So, I am not reallly one to walk away from a good little workhorse or a work of art.

PS.

Both of yours look great, and your rifles.

Cheers,

J

 

[legaleagle69]

Must admit I am a sucker for the old mauser actioned hunting rifles with old fashioned engineering and a bit of nice wood.
However I do have a Tikka T3 308 with a Zeiss scope which was very good til it went south in some cold weather and fogged up topped off with a T8
Now that to me is a work horse and the old rifle is my toy 8) well several old rifles actually

So you got that BSA then Mr JayB you said that you thought it may be coming your way last time we chatted, pics would be nice

BTW lovely rifle Brithunter very popular rifle in NZ still seen quite a few Monarchs over there still in every day use good as the day they were bought.

 

[Brithunter]

Ahhh legaleagle69,

The Majestic Featherweight that I will be getting to fit the sound mod to is one I looked and photgraphed for a fellow in New Zealand however the shipping prices killed the deal as I understand it. Being a .270 and it seems not so popular down South it was still tucked away in the back room. I am getting rid of a rather tatty Monarch 1st Pat to make room for it.

Now jingzy,

The information about the cut rifling I found in John Knibbs book:-

The Golden Century

which is also where I got the prefix information from. I understand John has the BSA shipping records so it may even be possible to find out where a BSA was shipped too and when . I find the BSA actions far smoother than the Parker-Hales but P-H fitted a better trigger in most cases. The early BSA's in my opinion had better triggers than the later ones I just adjusted that Regent trigger to single stage at about 4lbs (guessimate) with no creep. As to the wood on the Regent I was fortunate but it seems that BSA had some good wood around the 1950's as the Majestic Featherweight deluxe also has similar streaked wood. I still need to find a Hunter and as the Regent is a .222 perhaps I should try for a Hunter in .22 Hornet as that and the .222 were teh first chamberings offered in the new sporting rifle line up back in 1953/54.

Wood on the later rifles seems more plain both of my CF2's are fairly plain in the wood department one is a half stocked and the other a Stutzen which in fact was my first full bore rifle .

The BSA that I would love to find is a 1923 model Sporting Rifle calibre is unimportant. I did see one in .330 BSA but at that time didn't know what it was and by the time I had reserched it and returned found that the gunshop had closed down and I have no idea what happened to the rifle.

And I would love to see your BSA

 

[jingzy]

Here you are Brithunter,

2 oldies

Top one as you will know is the BSA, lower is the Sako.

Cheers,
J

 

[Dalua]

The stock on that Sako is identical in shape to that on my AII, although the wood looks prettier, and mine lacks the ?rosewood forend tip and the apparent metal cap on the pistol-grip.

Very nice!

 

[rigboot]

Well I'd just like to say thanks for the input on my initial post everyone!!

This post has turned into a bit of an education with the older rifles etc

PS, Love the wood on the Sako jingzy, lovely!

Thanks again all

Rigboot

 

[jingzy]

Rigboot,

has the thread helped you in any decision making?

What are you going for?

 

[Brithunter]

Thanks jingzy,

Although I cannot see the bottom metal properly I will say it looks like a CF2 with the American/export roll over stock and it has very nice wood on it for that period. Most you see have very plain wood and very straight grained. Here is my own CF2 in 7x57 with my buddies Sako L61 in 300 Win mag:-

As you can see the stock is very plain on my CF2. Oh and yes both rifles were unloaded as we had finished hunting for the day and were dealing with a 10pt Whitetailed Buck that Steven had shot.

 

[rigboot]

Rigboot,

has the thread helped you in any decision making?

What are you going for?

Its has certainly raised a few points I need to consider.

I will be looking for a stalking rifle more from a recreational point of view as opposed to needing a workhorse tool (I won’t be out day in day out) so probably erring on minter 2nd hander or new rifle. I’m still thinking Sako or Tikka for now but need to handle a few and see what impression I get

Probably going for a fixed mag scope, seems prudent, I'm all for Keeping it simple & may have to reconsider the 8x and tame it down to a 6x as mentioned previously.

For this, I’ll wait to see the landowner and have a peek at his optics set up on the ground and take it from there.

Binos, well I know fine it’s a try before you by type affair but the recommendations all help narrow things down and hopefully others who are venturing into the deer stalking world will have gleaned some good info as I have. For my needs, the Minox seems a fair compromise between performance & reliability.

Slightly off topic but another turn up for me just recently is the option of assisting with some regular’ish fox control locally, so what was originally single calibre FAC application, may now include a 22-250/223 or similar for this. Never rains eh!

With this in mind, between a foxing calibre and the .243, I think that’ll do for me just now.
Not ruling out a larger calibre at some stage in the future should I get a crack at some hill red stalking but I’ll take it easy and walk before running!!

So yes, it has helped me get a better idea all round and thanks to the forum contributors

Best regards

Rigboot

 

[jingzy]

It is always nice to have different calibres for different jobs, but consider this.

If you are getting a .243 and you are mainly shooting roe, then I would look at the remington accutip 75grs. This will give you a hard hitting roe round and will also give a compromise in flatter shooting for the distant fox.

This way, it is only one rifle and more money for the important things like the glass.

Cheers,

J

 

[rigboot]

It is always nice to have different calibres for different jobs, but consider this.

If you are getting a .243 and you are mainly shooting roe, then I would look at the remington accutip 75grs. This will give you a hard hitting roe round and will also give a compromise in flatter shooting for the distant fox.

This way, it is only one rifle and more money for the important things like the glass.

Cheers,

J

I hear what your saying Jingsy re: using a dual role rifle and yes, it would obviously leave more "scope" no pun intended, for a better quality single outfit as opposed to two.

My initial uncertainty here was about a using fixed (6x42 or 8 x 56 S&B) woodland stalking scope though, and if it would still be sufficient for use when lamping foxes?

If its not suitable, then rather than having to use a different scope, re-zero, change scope for stalking, re-zero again etc, I was thinking of getting a smaller calibre set up which would be foxing specific and be ready to go whenever I needed it.

I'm basically just banging a few ideas about to see what road I should go down but again, thanks for the input and advice so far!!

Cheers

Rigboot

 

[Mauser66]

It is always nice to have different calibres for different jobs, but consider this.

If you are getting a .243 and you are mainly shooting roe, then I would look at the remington accutip 75grs. This will give you a hard hitting roe round and will also give a compromise in flatter shooting for the distant fox.

This way, it is only one rifle and more money for the important things like the glass.

Cheers,

J

I'm using 75gr Rem AccuTips and find they're superbly precise and hit really hard. Unfortunately they did blow apart the front end of a muntjac on me and that was at 160ish yds. I didn't have the same problem on roe though. Will reload the cases with 80gr ballistic tips.

 

[jingzy]

Rigboot,

if you are shooting very last light and first thing in the morning then an 8x56 is usually the best option, or if you are going to be in a canopy where the light is a little bit of a problem.

6x42 is an excellent all rounder and as long as you get one with a medium to thick cross hair, then it will not disappear in the lamp.

7x50 meopta are excellent scopes, but they have a very fine hair and will disappear in the scope.

As previously said, I have a zeiss 6x42. Ask your mate for advice and get back to me if you want to consider it. It is mint.