Rifled slugs v double rifle

[buckup]

Hi all,
I put this question in general discusion then in wild boar. Didn't get much back, so I thought I'd try here:-

I have the chance to shoot boar in a wooded mountainous area, so ranges will be sub 100m mostly less than 50m. My options are to buy a cheap iron sight double rifle, perhaps a Baikal. Alternatively I could use a Brenneke type slug in a shotgun.

I'm looking for some advice from someone who has used rifled slugs in a smooth barrel. What level of accuracy can I expect, and over what range? Is there a recoil issue?

Regarding the Double rifle, has anyone here used or owned a Baikal double rifle? Opinions on accuracy and reliability of the regulating system, would be most helpful.

I own a 7x64 Sauer 202, but I want a very cheap alternative as it will most likely end up being dropped, sat on, or used to beat a path, before I actually shoot with it.

I look forward to reading your words of wisdom.

Mark.

 

[JTO]

A couple of my mates had Mossberg slugsters and reckoned they could do 8" groups at 100 yrds with them.

 

[enfieldspares]

They are really two totally different things IMHO. One is a rifle that just happens to have a second barrel alongside the other and the next is a means to extend the range of a shot gun beyond that at which pattern with "shot" fails.

A smooth bore using slug is not a double rifle substitute. It has neither the energy nor the accuracy compared to even a relatively "light" double rifle calibre such as 7x57R or 30 Blaser. NOR MOST IMPORTANTLY DECENT SIGHTS TO ACCURATELY PLACE THE PROJECTILE ON THE TARGET AT A DEFINED POINT OF AIM.

The sole exceptions might be paradox or fauneta gun, or a smooth bore regulated for slug with proper sights. The Hungarian FEG Police Gun for example. But even these are merely a modified shot gun with a slightly greater accuracy potential. AND AT LEAST SIGHTS SO THAT THE SLUG CAN BE PLACED ACCURATELY ON THE TARGET AT A POINT OF AIM.

Totally different from a true 12 bore RIFLE (of which such things did once exist). These are accurate. But these are rifles that were measured by the "bore" system and not shot guns.

So my response would be are you going to shoot winged game or hares where you are carrying a shot gun and might just come across a boar as a target of chance?

Or are you out and out stalking boar and no other thing except maybe cloven game?

If it is the first then the slug discussion is relevant. If it is the second then a good reliable bolt action (that you spend time on reloading drills with dummy cartridges) will beat any slug shooting smooth bore.

It has to. It has the better sights!

On the continent of course where commonsense and not the nonsense of Mrs Thatcher holds sway then they have pump action and self-loading rifles. We don't.

So either practice with your bolt action or buy a lever action in a true powerful rifle calibre!

I've used slug and there's not much except to try various varieties to the individual gun. The FEG Police Gun would shoot BOTH barrels into four inches at fifty yards from memory.

And do you really use your gun as a beater's stick to knock your way through the woods?

 

[Brithunter]

If you want to know about the Baikal double rifle then talk to Lewis Potter of Potter and Walker as he had one for a while on test. I have always found Lewis to be honest so give him a call, the one he was playing with was 30-06, and he will tell you how it went.

Oh what you consider very cheap others might not think or it that way. Now I don't know what neck of the woods your in but F.A Anderson of East Grinstead in Sussex had an Italian O/U double rifle brand new that I seem to recall was in 8x57mm and about £1500. I saw it a while ago when in there but it was not on the rack downstairs so they might still have it. I prefer the SxS in doubles one day ........... one day

 

[Muir]

THis is what I use for dangerous game in close quarters out to 50M. IT's a Savage Fox Model B 12 gauge that someone had shortened before I ran into it. I intstalled Remmy sights and it will shoot either barrel to Point of Aim at 50M and keep all slugs inside a 4" circle. I once build two guns identical to this for Game officers of an Indian tribe in South Dakota for bison managment. They use them with great success on 1000 pound wild bison that get off the range and into the forest.

I would tackle a boar with this gun, any day, but I wouldn't shoot past 50M. Not with the short sight radius. I have no complaint about accuracy. ~Muir

 

[JAYB]

If I am not mistaken Muir my man, that is the gun we were using on the range, and if it is I managed to hit a bowling pin at 100 yards with the left barrel and missed by four inches or so with the right barrel. I would not hesitate to use that beast on boar in what could be considered typical woodland ranges, i.e. 50-75 yards.

John

 

[Heym SR20]

Would suggest the 7x64 Sauer 202 loaded with heavy bullets - ie the RWS 162 or 175 gn bullets would be more than enough for Boar - and it is a rifle that you already know and first shot accuracy is always the most important.

 

[finnbear270]

Hey fella's, what lever action would be suitable for Boar, as to calibre/sights, etc, with a view to use here in UK as well as abroad?. Steve.

 

[Claret_Dabbler]

I would not entertain a double shotgun with slugs for boar, unless you could guarantee ranges under 20m.

The best option might be something like a benelli auto with a rifle sighted barrel and a rifle choke tube. I don't know what the attitude of your local cops would be to such a beast, I assume it would need to be held on an FAC. I know here in NI where shotguns are held on an FAC they will license this and slugs for travelling boar hunters.

If you are using your rifle, I would say go for the heaviest bullet you can load in your calibre in a round nose. You do not need high velocity, just a big slug at 2500 FPS.

The real answer is the 9.3x62.

 

[Jagare]

I use a Remington 870 Wingmaster for boar when hunting the kopov. It groups 2" at 50 mtrs . Good weapon when up close and personal.
But if i was going boar shooting and had your Sauer i would use that. As Heym SR20 said heavy bullet and plenty of practice on the range on a moving target.

 

[rarms]

I have never shot boar, but i have shot slugs through my mossberg 24" barrelled shotgun. I was grouping at easily 3" at 50 metres with the open rifle style sights, and actually shooting the running boar target at Minsterley was hitting it consistently.

 

[buckup]

Thanks guys,
I think this has thrown up as many questions as answers.

The country is Italy so British laws don't have to apply. I can use an Italian permit if needed.

I don't want to take my beautiful Sauer Stutzen into a situation where I know from experience it will not remain beautiful for very long. The ground is seriously mountainous and a lot of scrambling about is sure to occur. This is a "wild" boar shoot as opposed to a driven hunt. A pack of Spinones is released to hunt the boar, whilst the guns wait on higher ground for the boar to pass going uphill to the reserve where they cannot be hunted. Most of the guys use solid slugs in old side by sides or repeating semi auto rifles.
The ground/mountainside is such that damage is almost inevitable. It would break my heart to do this kind of hunting with anything more than a very cheap weapon, ( £100 - £500) cheaper the better.

Most shots are taken at very close range, my last at 60 yards was considered a long shot.

Hi Enfield, thanks for your imput, this will be purely a piggy gun. I see your point, but sights and accuracy are most valid at static targets. These boar will likely have a pack of dogs not far behind and a first shot is likely to be taken at a fast target, second shot will have to follow a second later, no more! Without a doubt the gun will take a bashing. I have never seen a stick carried by anyone in the area. The reason being that what with a day pack, weapon, ammunition and the prospect of dragging a boar down a mountain for several miles, a stick would be one more thing to carry.

I did ask for first hand accounts, so anyone who has used one or the other please come forward.

For those that already have, thanks.

Mark

 

[JTO]

Hey fella's, what lever action would be suitable for Boar, as to calibre/sights, etc, with a view to use here in UK as well as abroad?. Steve.

.444 Marlin comes to mind.

 

[enfieldspares]

Hey fella's, what lever action would be suitable for Boar, as to calibre/sights, etc, with a view to use here in UK as well as abroad?. Steve.

Winchester 88 in 308...I think there is one on guntrader at the moment. The Browning BLR equivalent. Both actually modern "bolt action" rifles in which the bolt is operated by the lever rather than by a bolt handle. Both have conventional magazines so you can safely use any commercial (pointed bullet) ammunition.

In older rifles take your pick from the various heavier calibre Winchester and Marlin offerings and the original or reproduction Winchester 95 in 30-06 or 405 chamberings.

From first hand experience with short barrel shot guns - Winchester 97 and Remington 870 with 20" barrels and the FEG Police Gun 20" barrel side-by-side - you will find that with buckshot a bead is best. With slug sights. Even if the target is moving.

 

[Muir]

Try a 45-70 Marlin. It will do the job.~Muir

 

[finnbear270]

Ta!, I'll have a look at those suggested arms on the net.

 

[finnbear270]

45/70 sounds like its about right. 8)

 

[Muir]

In my wild youth, living on an indian reservation, I had the opportunity to hunt down a large bull buffalo that has been wounded. I carried a bolt action 45-70 and when I came upon him face to face, put him down with a single 405 grain Speer Soft Point. A boar would be no problem, JMHO.~Muir

 

[theshootist]

I used slugs in my Browning gold semi auto in Croatia on driven boar. I bought one of those cantilever style scope bases that fits over the receiver and fitted a low power scope.

Nevertheless I was not confident with it beyond 50 yards and felt undergunned next to others with bolt or double rifles. With respect their terminal effectiveness, from my very limited experience the slugs were comprehensively outperformed by rifles. I would go for your other option of a baikal double, just pick the ammunition carefully.

Now a stoked up .45-70 out of a marlin guide gun or similar... now you're talking!

 

[reiver]

I have shot slugs through my Benelli semi auto and they will group in 4" with 5 shots all day useing 1/4 choke at 50 meters and i have shot boar at that range as well .
I aslo use a.444 Marlin ul as well for shooting pigs using 265gr hornadys and toped off with a red dot sight on both guns.
At the range that driven boar are shot at both will do the job with out any worries .