Ross Stalking Telescope Write Up

[NickJ]

FWIW, we used to get in for repair deer- and pannier saddles also stamped MacPherson, Inverness; they were apparently a one-stop-shop for all things sporting estate in the heyday, but are long since gone. Like the telescopes, the deer-saddles (Strathfarrar type) were almost certainly not made in-house, as they weren’t Saddlers per se.

My father in law (a Macpherson himself who you know) still shoots with a Macpherson of Inverness side by side inherited from his uncle, did they make the guns themselves or were they also made by someone else do you know?

 

[Sika98k]

Any better ? It measures 33” fully extended.

 

[Klenchblaize]

A very interesting read and clearly the thermal-like aid to spying of the day.

Love the pictures that show how to steady the telescope:

K

 

[Overlay]

thanks to all that contributed to this thread, I found it very very interesting and down to earth, thoroughly enjoyed the read, nice to see some real traditional stalking kit and some still in use. Brilliant thread

 

[User00040]

Any better ? It measures 33” fully extended.

Not really to be honest!

Would need it in my hands but it looks like the first joint where the draw tube meets the objective tube isn't right. Bent?

 

[Sealgair nam fiadh]

A Ross in action

 

[Freeforester]

My father in law (a Macpherson himself who you know) still shoots with a Macpherson of Inverness side by side inherited from his uncle, did they make the guns themselves or were they also made by someone else do you know?

Sorry NickJ, I’m unaware of who might have been the makers, but quite possibly from the Birmingham trade back in the day.

 

[bogtrotter]

Would the knowledgeable amongst us know anything about this draw telescope ? Marked J. Lizars, Glasgow & Edinburgh. Marked to R. McMullan

All I can tell you is that Lizars was founded in Glasgow in 1830 by an optician by the name of John Lizars he made all types of optical instruments telescopes, microscopes , magic lanterns and of course eye glasses and later cameras
on his death the company was taken over by a Michael Ballantine but he kept the Lizars name
The company was owned by a succession of Ballantine's until 1999 when they were joined by a C. Jeffrey Black
Company name then changing to Black and Lizars.
The company is still in existance today they have several branches throughout the country now mainly opticians but
They do still have a branch in Ireland dealing in photographic equipment.

As to R. McMullan I have no idea but the McMullan name is more common as an Irish rather than Scottish.

 

[NickJ]

If one was buying a telescope for the hill today would you guys go for a Ross or a modern, spotting scope style affair?

I appreciate that there is a much more intrinsic value to a Ross but my rifle is stainless steel in a synthetic stock...

 

[Freeforester]

The Gray uses Schott glass lenses, I think via Schmidt and Bender, or they were back in the day according to the late Colonel Milne. It is a heavier, though more robust instrument, and is very, very good. If you could put their lenses into a lighter alloy draw set, that would be pretty near as good as possible. As it is, on a day with decent light, the Ross is still a superb glass with fine resolution.

 

[gerarddwatts]

The problem with modern spotting scopes is that they are too short to use on a hill; can't rest them on your knee as above, or use your stick as a steady.

I'm told that the supplier of lenses for Gray telescopes decided to only supply them in 1000 minimum batches, so they are no longer produced.

A good Ross is just as good as a Gray, both infinitely better than a modern spotting type scope

 

[bogtrotter]

The Gray uses Schott glass lenses, I think via Schmidt and Bender, or they were back in the day according to the late Colonel Milne. It is a heavier, though more robust instrument, and is very, very good. If you could put their lenses into a lighter alloy draw set, that would be pretty near as good as possible. As it is, on a day with decent light, the Ross is still a superb glass with fine resolution.

The Ross company also used Schott glass from around the early 1900 in fact one of their technicians was poached from
Zeiss ther was some colaberation between Ross and Zeiss at that tme.
In the early 1900s Zeiss had a factory in London with the outbreak of war they were forced to cease trading and the
Factory was taken over by Ross.

 

[bogtrotter]

The problem with modern spotting scopes is that they are too short to use on a hill; can't rest them on your knee as above, or use your stick as a steady.

I'm told that the supplier of lenses for Gray telescopes decided to only supply them in 1000 minimum batches, so they are no longer produced.

A good Ross is just as good as a Gray, both infinitely better than a modern spotting type scope

Agreed the only perceived advantage of a modern Gray is that is that it is gas filled if not gas filled at least coated lenses and should not mist up
on the other hand I can strip and clean the lenses on my Ross . I have even done it on the hill on occasion, takes all of
ten minutes to do, you can't do that with a modern Gray though I'm led to believe you could with the early ones.

 

[bogtrotter]

If one was buying a telescope for the hill today would you guys go for a Ross or a modern, spotting scope style affair?

I appreciate that there is a much more intrinsic value to a Ross but my rifle is stainless steel in a synthetic stock...

I can't really afford a Gray haven't been able to find a half decent one for less than £850 sometimes considerably more
any that I have seen for less were not worth having though I do keep watching for a bargain.
On the other hand you can pick up a perfectly servicable Ross for around £200 sometimes less
my own Ross must be about a hundred years old and still in regular use.
Maybe I'm a bit perverse but I take pleasure in using something with the age and history that it
has, especially as it still works as well as the day that it left the factory.

 

[bogtrotter]

Not really to be honest!

Would need it in my hands but it looks like the first joint where the draw tube meets the objective tube isn't right. Bent?

Caberslash, not relevant to this but early on in this thread you copied some pages from a Ross catalogue do you have any idea of the date of publication?

 

[Freeforester]

Agreed the only perceived advantage of a modern Gray is that is that it is gas filled if not gas filled at least coated lenses and should not mist up
on the other hand I can strip and clean the lenses on my Ross . I have even done it on the hill on occasion, takes all of
ten minutes to do, you can't do that with a modern Gray though I'm led to believe you could with the early ones.

I’ve owned two Gray’s glasses over the years, also with a few Ross glasses at the same time (4 proper, full sized ones in total), the coated lenses on the Grays do extend the viewing time considerably in deteriorating light, though I’ve used it in this way for spying roe far more than for red deer, the latter aren’t normally hunted on the hill so late in the day. The earlier Gray glass was certainly fully openable for drying, cleaning, etc. but tbh I haven’t tried this with the later, wide angle Gray glass. To the best of my knowledge the Grays were not gas filled, unless we accept air being the gas in question, any extending or draw telescope of any kind (including Swarovski‘s spotting telescopes) are only filled with the ambient air, which is expelled and drawn in on each closing and extending of the draws.

 

[bogtrotter]

I’ve owned two Gray’s glasses over the years, also with a few Ross glasses at the same time (4 proper, full sized ones in total), the coated lenses on the Grays do extend the viewing time considerably in deteriorating light, though I’ve used it in this way for spying roe far more than for red deer, the latter aren’t normally hunted on the hill so late in the day. The earlier Gray glass was certainly fully openable for drying, cleaning, etc. but tbh I haven’t tried this with the later, wide angle Gray glass. To the best of my knowledge the Grays were not gas filled, unless we accept air being the gas in question, any extending or draw telescope of any kind (including Swarovski‘s spotting telescopes) are only filled with the ambient air, which is expelled and drawn in on each closing and extending of the draws.

OK must be coated lenses then I do know you can't strip and clean the later ones at home it's a specialist job..
Caberslash will probably know for certain.,

 

[User00040]

Caberslash, not relevant to this but early on in this thread you copied some pages from a Ross catalogue do you have any idea of the date of publication?

It will be post war @bogtrotter , I would think mid 1950's due to the change in Ross logo and no longer offering Brass, just 'light metal' (I suspect some sort of nickel/tin alloy) and Aluminium.

I poached the pictures off the 'Scottish Sporting Estates History' facebook group, if you are not there then you should be!

 

[User00040]

If one was buying a telescope for the hill today would you guys go for a Ross or a modern, spotting scope style affair?

Where have you seen a Ross for sale? Many fakes from India out there, a few who didn't pay attention have been caught.

I appreciate that there is a much more intrinsic value to a Ross but my rifle is stainless steel in a synthetic stock...

Now for what everyone does not want to hear.

Unless you have a proper case for your scope, don't bother taking it on the hill.

I have seen pictures of @Freeforester 's work and he makes them well, so does Norman Kelman of Achnasheen.

Cases will not be cheap, as you are looking at a decent cut of saddle leather, which takes a lot of effort to stich properly.

Material costs alone will be well over £100 if you consider the strap and buckles too.

Add labour and you are looking at over £350, and remember the boys need to make a profit (as they should!).

My Ross remaining Ross scope was £75 off ebay but I had to pay the lady who made mine in installments

All worth it though, as it was made to my specifications (However, I omitted to tell her that my plan was to wedged a length of PVC drain pipe in, so my scope case is not only rock solid but also a worthy improvised rifle rest ).

 

[NickJ]

Where have you seen a Ross for sale? Many fakes from India out there, a few who didn't pay attention have been caught.



Now for what everyone does not want to hear.

Unless you have a proper case for your scope, don't bother taking it on the hill.

I have seen pictures of @Freeforester 's work and he makes them well, so does Norman Kelman of Achnasheen.

Cases will not be cheap, as you are looking at a decent cut of saddle leather, which takes a lot of effort to stich properly.

Material costs alone will be well over £100 if you consider the strap and buckles too.

Add labour and you are looking at over £350, and remember the boys need to make a profit (as they should!).

My Ross remaining Ross scope was £75 off ebay but I had to pay the lady who made mine in installments

All worth it though, as it was made to my specifications (However, I omitted to tell her that my plan was to wedged a length of PVC drain pipe in, so my scope case is not only rock solid but also a worthy improvised rifle rest ).

I haven't seen one for sale, I haven't looked yet, what should one look for to avoid a fake?

Yes, I'd get Steve or Norman to make them, I have seen both of their work.

Thanks