RWS 22lr High Velocity Green Lead Free - First impressions

[Heym SR20]

As I mentioned on another thread I picked up a box of these for about £9 to give them a try.

Rifle - an old Brno Mod 2, chopped to 16” with a Parker Hale Moderator. Scope is an Meopta 6x42.

Range - about 50 yards with a gusty cross wind of 10mph - enough to make grass move and you feel a chill in the breeze.

I gave the barrel a good scrub prior to shooting.

Shooting over a pack from prone 10 shots.



The two shots on the left were my first two and not particularly stable. The rest are pretty tight as regards height but a bit ragged as regards windage. Not worried about zero.

So tried a magazine - 5 shots with RWS subs.



A bit tigher

So shot some more into the lead free group.



There is the makings of a group in there but as my school report did say - could do better.

I did subsequently find this article which does rather put 22lr wind drift into perspective - high velocity are pretty sensitive ti wind and lighter weight zinc bullets more so.

Next steps to repeat with the Norma equivalent.

22 LR Wind Cross Drift @ Gunsmoke Engineering

 

[StephenToast]

If your experience is anything like mine you'll find that the Norma are exactly the same as the RWS.

The CCI non lead is even worse.

Good luck though.

 

[User00040]

As I mentioned on another thread I picked up a box of these for about £9 to give them a try.

£9 per box of 50?!

 

[StephenToast]

£9 per box of 50?!

Here we go again.

Mr I shoot a billion bullets a year.

 

[User00040]

Here we go again.

Mr I shoot a billion bullets a year.

It's OK @StephenToast , you can use your imagination instead since make believe and pretend are free

 

[Steff]

I‘d rather not shoot than such ‚groups‘. Regardless of the cost.

 

[StephenToast]

To be honest...

Purely on cost

£9 by comparison to 50 Stingers (Seeing as these are supersonic) Ain't that far off.

CCI .22 LR Stinger Copper 32Gr x 50 – Glasgow Angling Centre

www.fishingmegastore.com

It's academic as none of the three non-lead .22lr alternatives I've tried so far group well enough through my rifle to use. But then again, neither do the stingers above.

 

[Donkey Basher]

£9 per box of 50?!

That's not expensive when compared to decent target bullets, mind you they do group a LOT better...

 

[Heym SR20]

Please can we not get into yet another slagging match. I am simply to trying to show real world results. Yes I would prefer smaller groups and ammo of zero cost. But just about all of the shots are into a 22 sized box and that’s the kill zone of a rabbit.

They do seem more affected by wind than heavier lead bullets so you would need to take this into account.

In my rifle do these have the makings of a bench rest target rifle - no.

But in a 50 year old 22 rifle, this ammo would work well enough to continue doing what a 22 rifle is meant to do.

 

[StephenToast]

Please can we not get into yet another slagging match. I am simply to trying to show real world results. Yes I would prefer smaller groups and ammo of zero cost. But just about all of the shots are into a 22 sized box and that’s the kill zone of a rabbit.

They do seem more affected by wind than heavier lead bullets so you would need to take this into account.

In my rifle do these have the makings of a bench rest target rifle - no.

But in a 50 year old 22 rifle, this ammo would work well enough to continue doing what a 22 rifle is meant to do.

As pro, Non-lead as I have become... I wouldn't accept that grouping capacity personally.

I do genuinely believe that before lead is totally banned a suitable alternative will be developed and I'll continue to try evrything and anything thay comes to the market as and when I can get my hands on it. But for now. This is the only area of my shooting that I still do with lead ammo.

If a suitable alternative to .22lr isn't developed. I'll be sad... For about a day, then I'll bin my rifle that I purchased twenty odd years ago for £100 and put in a variation for something else.

 

[Smellydog]

I am enjoying these tests that kind folks present to us all. Thank you .

These tests are providing me with sound reasoning and thus argument that in the interests of humane hunting lead 22 bullets at least should NOT be banned!

 

[Liveonce]

But in a 50 year old 22 rifle, this ammo would work well enough to continue doing what a 22 rifle is meant to do.

yes and no my 22lr rifle (as it happens also a Brno mod 2 cut to 16inch with parker hale mod) is only used with subsonic ammo, if noise is not an issue then it stays in the cabinet.

 

[Heym SR20]

Going back to my first groups. Vertically there is about a 1” spread. Its the horizontal that is the problem.

And I had a gusty crosswind and I wasn’t trying to dope it in any way. Same point of aim with each shot.

If the ammo was genuinely inaccurate I would expect a lot of horizontal spread as well. But am not seeing this.

I will have another go and also try Norma ammo as well.

 

[Bowland blades]

As pro, Non-lead as I have become... I wouldn't accept that grouping capacity personally.

I do genuinely believe that before lead is totally banned a suitable alternative will be developed and I'll continue to try evrything and anything thay comes to the market as and when I can get my hands on it. But for now. This is the only area of my shooting that I still do with lead ammo.

If a suitable alternative to .22lr isn't developed. I'll be sad... For about a day, then I'll bin my rifle that I purchased twenty odd years ago for £100 and put in a variation for something else.

Already in existence in bismuth or rather a bismuth mix . Problem is cost of the material and cost of manufacture/ processing .
I think copper is as close as we will come with rifle ammo but only in cf . As in the past new cartridges and l manufacturing processes will eventually come to the fore

I do think many cartridges will be discontinued but new ones will come along to replace them . Personally speaking I wouldn't be spending on any more rimfire rifles till this is all settled . Though if the shooter simply picks up what they have shot I cannot see any environment issues using lead rimfire . It's to big a slug to be taken in for grit by birds and it should simply pass through a fox etc as it deficates . Food chain to humans ? Irrelevant its its headship with a 22 and 17 hmr is much better replaced with a small cf imo

 

[25 Sharps]

As I mentioned on another thread I picked up a box of these for about £9 to give them a try.

Rifle - an old Brno Mod 2, chopped to 16” with a Parker Hale Moderator. Scope is an Meopta 6x42.

Range - about 50 yards with a gusty cross wind of 10mph - enough to make grass move and you feel a chill in the breeze.

I gave the barrel a good scrub prior to shooting.

Shooting over a pack from prone 10 shots.

View attachment 253897

The two shots on the left were my first two and not particularly stable. The rest are pretty tight as regards height but a bit ragged as regards windage. Not worried about zero.

So tried a magazine - 5 shots with RWS subs.

View attachment 253898

A bit tigher

So shot some more into the lead free group.

View attachment 253899

There is the makings of a group in there but as my school report did say - could do better.

I did subsequently find this article which does rather put 22lr wind drift into perspective - high velocity are pretty sensitive ti wind and lighter weight zinc bullets more so.

Next steps to repeat with the Norma equivalent.

22 LR Wind Cross Drift @ Gunsmoke Engineering

Makings of a group

 

[25 Sharps]

Please can we not get into yet another slagging match. I am simply to trying to show real world results. Yes I would prefer smaller groups and ammo of zero cost. But just about all of the shots are into a 22 sized box and that’s the kill zone of a rabbit.

They do seem more affected by wind than heavier lead bullets so you would need to take this into account.

In my rifle do these have the makings of a bench rest target rifle - no.

But in a 50 year old 22 rifle, this ammo would work well enough to continue doing what a 22 rifle is meant to do.

No it wouldn’t, that accuracy is terrible! 1-2.5” at 50 yards is terrible and risks injuring and causing suffering to animals. .22s don’t carry much power and if you don’t hit a rabbit in the right place they will not kill it quickly!

Why are you pretending this is acceptable?

 

[Heym SR20]

No it wouldn’t, that accuracy is terrible! 1-2.5” at 50 yards is terrible and risks injuring and causing suffering to animals. .22s don’t carry much power and if you don’t hit a rabbit in the right place they will not kill it quickly!

Why are you pretending this is acceptable?

If you read the original post, I had a gusty side wind. Light 23gn bullets will be susceptible. Vertical spread is under 1 inch. I would expect in calm conditions to get an overall sub 1” group.

A 22lr always has its limitations and you need to work within it. If it was a gusty wind I would keep ranges shorter. Chest area of rabbit is about 2” in diameter.

But I suspect you are more than capable of shooting rabbits at 150 yards in a howling gale with your 22lr, or 17 HMR.

 

[25 Sharps]

If you read the original post, I had a gusty side wind. Light 23gn bullets will be susceptible. Vertical spread is under 1 inch. I would expect in calm conditions to get an overall sub 1” group.

A 22lr always has its limitations and you need to work within it. If it was a gusty wind I would keep ranges shorter. Chest area of rabbit is about 2” in diameter.

But I suspect you are more than capable of shooting rabbits at 150 yards in a howling gale with your 22lr, or 17 HMR.

Right, so you are only ever going to shoot when it’s not windy?

The comparison with the lead bullets your shot and the lead free in the same conditions say it all about the suitability of lead verses lead free for shooting in real world conditions! Even 1” spread overall is crap at 50 yards, 2 moa isn’t acceptable.

Most .22s will put in fingernail groups at that range and the cartridge is far more capable, @LuckyEddie recently posted a video of @Fox Red shooting rabbits at 180 odd yards with his.

Even 10 mph is not that bad a wind at 50 yards!!

And I don’t shoot HMR…….

 

[Heym SR20]

So my conclusions after a another session with this RWS ammo.

At 50 odd yards it is at best shooting an iphone (quite a large one) sized group.

It doesn’t shoot nearly as well in my rifle as RWS subsonics or normal high velocity ammo. My rifle is an old Brno Mod2 that has been restocked.

I did once try stingers and they too didn’t shoot well, and it also doesn’t like CCI Subs either.

Is this my rifle / ammo combination- yes. Would it be worth trying other brands - almost certainly, but the two main brands Norma and RWS appear to be pretty much the same thing.

There is a good review in Rifle Shooter that tests the RWS and Norma non toxic ammo in a range of rifles including Anchutz and Finnfires. Get’s much better results.

Searching for the perfect lead-free .22 bullet? We've got you covered!

The race is on the find the perfect lead free bullet - our writer ‘Broadsword’ investigates some lead-free options for .22LR rifles

www.rifleshootermagazine.co.uk

There clearly needs to be more development in the 22LR / Non lead ammo paradigm with a wider range of alternatives.

Given that with centrefire ammo, you are now able to get good consistent accuracy and performance out of a number of brands, I expect the 22lr will follow suit, in both target and hunting ammo.

However we made need to appreciate that many older 22s may not shoot particularly well with such ammo and that for serious shooting be it target or longer range pest control will require an update of equipment, in particular looking at a faster barrel twist than 1 in 16”.

 

[bowji john]

Interesting

Thanks for taking the time to test and inform us of your findings

j