S1:S2 It has already started

[Heym SR20]

The above which is in the "guidance" may say that but is not wholly on point in respect of s2 and what the Firearms Act sets out as the law. I have underlined the relevant part.

This was expressly inserted to allow the retention and keeping of (usually family owned) shotguns by, say, the spouse or other friend or relative of, say, a deceased individual for it retention until a person to whom it was intended for could on obtaining a SGC then take possession of it.

As below:

Special provisions about shot gun certificates.

(1B)For the purposes of paragraph (b) of subsection (1A) above an applicant shall, in particular, be regarded as having a good reason if the gun is intended to be used for sporting or competition purposes or for shooting vermin; and an application shall not be refused by virtue of that paragraph merely because the applicant intends neither to use the gun himself nor to lend it for anyone else to use.

In other words a perfectly good reason is that want to keep a family heirloom for a future generation, or take delight in collecting guns.

But you still have to demonstrate a good reason. You can’t simply have a gun without showing good reason or being a person of good character.

As regards mental health challenges, the Police are only too well aware of the potential outcome, since they are the ones who first called to sort out the mess.

We absolutely need a society that is much much more open about mental health. Nobody these days raises an eyebrow if you get a broken leg, heart problems or a tumour, you go and seek treatment.

Police Scotland now quite openly discuss this, indeed literature on seeking help is included with every certificate posted. I know a couple of people who have through some pretty difficult occasions and the police have been very professional, suggesting that the guns, or at least the keys to the cabinet should be kept elsewhere. Once things were stable again things went back to normal. Recently I notified the Police of the transfer of my late father’s shotgun onto my certificate. I got a call from my FEO expressing his sympathies and offering his support if needs be. Of course he was checking up on me, but he was also just being a good human being.

 

[enfieldspares]

In other words a perfectly good reason is that want to keep a family heirloom for a future generation, or take delight in collecting guns.

But you still have to demonstrate a good reason. You can’t simply have a gun without showing good reason or being a person of good character.

Yes. I can see that logic in the way you've written your reply. A good reminder to all that the law under (1B) does not require "use" of any frequency or not nor any access to "place of use" to be shown in regard to s2.

 

[Demetrius]

As for the GP's reporting mental health issues, they might only be aware if they'd been consulted.

I actually meant every applicant being positively vetted on first application for an FAC.
But I guess one downside would be that a psychiatrists fee for such a profiling consultation would add yet another expense.

D.

 

[Heym SR20]

As for the GP's reporting mental health issues, they might only be aware if they'd been consulted.

I actually meant every applicant being positively vetted on first application for an FAC.
But I guess one downside would be that a psychiatrists fee for such a profiling consultation would add yet another expense.

D.

The other big challenge with mental health/ suicide in men below the age of 40 is that in the vast majority of successful suicides there is very little warning of the individuals attentions, not only to immediate family and friends but also medical professions. A number of years ago my mother worked on a clinical audit across Oxfordshire and Berkshire. This looked at all the suicides of men and then went through their medical notes looking for any signals, symptoms etc that could have been picked up. Mostly they had a very clean medical record.

These days we no longer have the likes of family doctors, local vicars, school teachers or local policemen who know the community well and have known individuals over a long period of time. In the past it was these sorts of people who would act as referees, with their reference being written down and signed.

 

[AlexD]

This just popped up in my Youtube feed, and while I ignore most of these as I don't have time to waste on Youtube, the title caught my attention so gave it a watch:


Shows just how precarious things are: one might invests tens of thousands, and years, into a sport for it all to vanish on the slimmest of whims.

 

[andyk]

This just popped up in my Youtube feed, and while I ignore most of these as I don't have time to waste on Youtube, the title caught my attention so gave it a watch:


Shows just how precarious things are: one might invests tens of thousands, and years, into a sport for it all to vanish on the slimmest of whims.

Just watched that, unless there’s a lot more to this that we aren’t seeing, she should be complaining to any authority she can, as that’s just vindictive.

The second revocation, the ‘admin error’ after she was coerced into the surrender, is frankly corrupt.

 

[Kane01]

Just watched that, unless there’s a lot more to this that we aren’t seeing, she should be complaining to any authority she can, as that’s just vindictive.

The second revocation, the ‘admin error’ after she was coerced into the surrender, is frankly corrupt.

Ive said it before and Ill say it again despite the heat it caused last time, I have struggled to meet an honest FEO. So no surprise to me if there was some corruption and dishonesty going on in Notts

 

[Chris Richardson]

This just popped up in my Youtube feed, and while I ignore most of these as I don't have time to waste on Youtube, the title caught my attention so gave it a watch:


Shows just how precarious things are: one might invests tens of thousands, and years, into a sport for it all to vanish on the slimmest of whims.

I do wonder who her shooting org was …..

 

[Chris Richardson]

Ive said it before and Ill say it again despite the heat it caused last time, I have struggled to meet an honest FEO. So no surprise to me if there was some corruption and dishonesty going on in Notts

Shhhh you’ll upset the SD apologists

 

[enfieldspares]

From a totally non-shooting viewpoint it is not at all difficult to secure a piece of ground against foxes. At my parent's house the open "chicken run" was 15 yards by 40 yards and foxes were never a problem. Rats were however! There will be many many many shoots that put down poults and have "pens" of great size. Again if properly wired they should be fox proof. So I don't accept that she would need a shotgun for protection of livestock from foxes. From a shooting viewpoint I will make no comment.

 

[AGR]

as a father with a 15 year old son who is adamant he will one day be a gamekeeper,
he now wants his own shotgun cert, i know on here this will be controversial in regards to FEO making stuff up blah blah blah..
but BASC has allot of online E learning courses available for free, i got him to do as many as he could and print off all certificates, they dont count as official courses, but in my opinion for teenagers it helps to show your willing to sit down, study and learn.
then when the time comes for an application to go in, pass the training certs with it.

Believe it or not, D&C have just granted a 15 y old lad I've mentored his own SGC, and he is allowed a gun in his own cabinet. So it is possible, and well done D&C, I'm really pleased to have something positive to say about them!

 

[Spear Chucker]

just like they get challenged for saying you need dsc for a deer legal calibre ?

HA! I had that from my FEO years ago when first applying...so I replied that I wasn't aware that there were two sets of H/O guidance...one for applicants and one for dodgy FEOs. Just looked at me like I had two heads, so I told him that there must be, otherwise how could he own the arsenal of centrefires he often bragged about, having failed DSC1 THREE times? He didn't like me much, luckily his boss was more sensible and sorted it all out. I see him every now and then in the hardware shop "Crikey "X"! Are you still alive? Just goes to show the Devil looks after his own...you back in here for more formaldehyde? Great stuff isn't it? I like mine with a drop of tonic".

 

[SOE]

good old basc in all seriousness though where doers it end with these made up restricitions ?

When they become law!

 

[Spear Chucker]

When they become law!

BS seems to have an ugly habit of becoming policy

 

[tarponhead]

It took my youngest daughter (19 years old at the time), a year to get an S2, in 2023.

FEO wanted 2 references, not just one. Her application was put on hold until she could provide proof of safety training, even though I assured the FEO she had been out with me, and when granted, all shotguns had to be co-owned by me. FEO wanted independent proof of training and safe shotgun use (fortunately, I had given her some lessons with an instructor for clays as a present in the previous year), and FEO followed up with her instructor to confirm she was safe.

My daughter is mild and well mannered, nobody in our household as ever been in any bother at all, in her 2nd year at Uni at the time (doing Biomedical Science), great school reports, no medical issues. I have lots of permissions for land she can shoot real pigeons on.

I realised this is well beyond what the regulations say an FEO should do, in fact no different to a Firearms Cert application, but in her case, the simplest path was to comply and provide the things requested. It is a sign of the times and a harbinger. The FEO involved is one who actually knows about firearms, a nice breath of fresh air. I don't imagine there is much misuse of legally held firearms on his watch.

Hopefully FEOs do not let any migrants have firearms of a shotgun unless they can provide a life history that can be substantiated, but I would not hold my breath on that. If anywhere, that is where the law needs tightening up. I do worry about the 24 year old, who claims he is 15, from Syria / Somalia / ... , getting hold of firearms: we have imported an army of fighting aged men, who don't wish to fight for a better life in their homeland but wish to continue their ways here - this is the real powder keg in the UK that the law needs to sort out.

This. I would not allow firearms ownership for the first 20 years after grant of leave to remain and never if they entered illegally, as that should be treated the same as a serious conviction.