Sauer out the box accuracy (not )

[scrun63]

This is what I got last Tuesday with my Sauer 90 .308 and home loads - its pre 1989 model - so I think you have probs with your new one mate. As has been previously said, you have to question if it's fit for purpose.

Earlier in the thread some suggested using RWS as a benchmark. I used RWS in mine and it wouldn't shoot in a group less than 4 inches, so i'm of the opinion that never mind what shot well for someone else's rifle, you have to find what's good for yours

Hope you get it sorted

atb

Scrun

 

[bewsher500]

the best grouping gained was 3 inch, mainy 3 together and a couple of flyers out of 5 shot groups. No order as in the barrel heating up just random combinations.

there is nothing random about having 3 shots together and 2 flyers
IMO this would indicate ammunition variables rather than rifle variables

I know a lot about crap groups, been shooting them for years in crap rifles! I never once had 3 together and 2 flyers opening the overall group

I agree with the post that you need to standardise the ammunition element otherwise you are are chasing too many moving variable.

I am surprised that Sauer feel 2.5" is adequate (in practice I agree that it is still perfectly lethal on most deer and most people on the day in the field will never replicate their benchrest groups!) but the 1 MOA benchmark is usually what manufacturers aim for.

change ammo for good quality factory of appropriate weight bullets (75-90gr IMO) - use at least two brands for control but standardise it
change scope and mounts for known performers. QR mounts may be an issue, would be surprised but worth removing that variable
use same shooter/method (bench/bags/bipod/rest/hold/trigger pul etc) throughout - no point changing shooter as you could get totally different results

if it still doesn't prove to be less than 2 MOA capable then it has to be the rifle - then send it back!

 

[neil_r]

I would stake my mortgage (if I had one) that Garlands would have used RWS as it was in their best interest for the rifle to perform well, and they push RWS ammo.

 

[Brithunter]

Generally speaking, it seems the acceptable industry standard is 1" or better at 100m, or yards, depending on the manufacturer.

2.5" is unacceptable for a hunting rifle, and not fit for purpose, in my humble opinion. Let alone the very reasonable expectation associated with buying such a rifle.

The accepted target area on a deer is roughly 4" in diameter. It's not unreasonable to shoot out to 200m +, even if it isn't the most common distance, but at 200m, this rifle couldn't guaranty a humane shot.

I would absolutely back the rifle as unfit for purpose.


Mark.

Industry standard is 2 inches or less for hunting rifles. Proper ammunition and optics should make this very easy.

That is taken from an e-mail from Danny at Remington Customer care services. So much for modern production methods!

A friend had a problem with a Sauer 202 it would not group well no matter what was tried. in the end Sauer sent a new barrel and that was slightly better but still not acceptable. He part ex-ed the rifle declaring it's full history for a BLaser R93 Off Road. he only kept that about a year before selling it and buying a used Mannlicher GK and having it re-barrelled by Walther Lothar. The original barrel was fairly worn and as he intends to keep the rifle for the rest of his shooting life. Te GK belonged to a German Doctor who had retired and given up shooting and whom was an old friend of his grand fathers. Although he also has his grand fathers GK as well now since he died last year of cancer.

The R93 Off Road was a bit of a disappointment to him as well. In 7x57 it did not shoot as well as he thought it should. The GK becoming available just tipped the decision.

 

[Klenchblaize]

Do Sauer no longer furnsih a signed factory test group with each rifle? My 90L certainaly did. It would be a help as a starting point to replication etc.

K

 

[I. Farticus]

How is a 2" group acceptable out of the box on ANY new rifle, let alone £6,500's worth!!!

A Tikka rifle only leaves the factory after grouping 3 rounds under 1", and that's a rifle selling new at between £700 and £1100

Personally, I'd take it back now without putting anything else down the barrel and demand my hard earned back as I'd just not have any confidence taking a 200yd shot with this...

Cheers
iain

 

[gixer1]

I don't believe sauer themselves would say that 2 1/2" was acceptable - I think a company with that good a reputation would do a lot to make sure their reputation remains intact - There seems to be a lot of people jumping on the "my remmy/tikka/PH shoots far better than that" - i'm not saying all sauers shoot sub inch but most i've heard of will!

I have a Tikka so have nothing against these other brands but none of them in standard format will hold a candle to a sauer out of the box - and thats the reason for the cost difference!

Regards,

Gixer

 

[User00026]

that's the thing, it's not really sauer saying it's acceptable, just their UK distributors who probably don't feel like dealing with the 'problem',,no?


Sale of Goods Act situation right here, the 'seller' is responsible, not the manufacturer.

 

[Offroad Gary]

Was steve beatty involved?

 

[Klenchblaize]

Sale of Goods Act situation right here, the 'seller' is responsible, not the manufacturer.

Indeed but a Manufacturer accuracy guarantee statement would be very helpful to bri2506’s Sauer-weary friend right now. In the absence of this and any record of communication between purchaser and seller that documents a minimum accuracy requirement; rather in the manner you might demand it “must have nice wood”, I can see things getting a wee bit heated.

Oh, and I’m not entirely convinced its the rifle that is responsible for these much larger than desirable groups but without a chance to look at and fire the thing I’ll leave further speculation to the more knowledgeable site members.

K

 

[bewsher500]

this amused me!

I was looking for some manufacturer details on their expectations though



[h=3]Shooting performance guarantee[/h]The firearm's shooting precision depends on numerous factors. The ammunition is the most important factor. Not every barrel shoots every type of ammunition equally, and differences in performances may result. The targeting scope and its assembly is also important. Parallaxes (differences in perspective), a loose sight, a defective sight, and defective mounting are the most frequent causes of unsatisfactory shooting performances. For this reason, you should use a brand-name targeting scope mounted by a specialist and calibrate the ammunition to your rifle by checking the ammunition type. Ammunition of the same make and the same assembly may possess a different shooting performance and targeting precision from production run to production run and from firearm to firearm. We guarantee excellent shooting performance using our firearms if the best possible ammunition, targeting scope, and assembly have been selected. Objections to the shooting performance must be submitted in writing within 20 days following the purchase date. We reserve the right to submit the firearm to an independent institute for testing (DEVA or National Firing Proof House). In case excellent shooting performance is confirmed, we shall be entitled to demand the resulting costs from the customer.

 

[cervus]

Was the rifle "shot in " prior to zeroing? I have two 202 s and they shoot even PRVI to 1/2" with ease,they are great rifles and well proven on the Continent,I use QR Sauer mounts with no issues.

 

[gixer1]

Indeed but a Manufacturer accuracy guarantee statement would be very helpful to bri2506’s Sauer-weary friend right now. In the absence of this and any record of communication between purchaser and seller that documents a minimum accuracy requirement; rather in the manner you might demand it “must have nice wood”, I can see things getting a wee bit heated.

Oh, and I’m not entirely convinced its the rifle that is responsible for these much larger than desirable groups but without a chance to look at and fire the thing I’ll leave further speculation to the more knowledgeable site members.

K

I would agree - I remember reading about a rifle that was grouping badly and it turned out to be a few seeds had got between the barrell and stock and had apparently added about an inch onto the grouping!! seems extreme but could it be something like this?

Regards,

Gixer

 

[Acm]

Ill offer you a one time only solution , sell it to me for £500 ?

 

[Conor1]

Sorry to hear about your Sauer. If the manufacturer was worth their salt they would exchange it in a heartbeat. I went down the Blaser route and the only problem that I have encountered was with a sporter barrel in 300 WM which disliked its new mod on its second outing. GBP6.5k will get you a lovely Blaser with a decent bit of glass and some!

 

[Paul at Fechan]

FACT - Out of the box a factory rifle should be a case of zero in and fire on, forget all that running in belief. If it won't group tight and the optical rig is sound then it's duff and needs to go back in the box and straight back to the shop.

 

[bri2506]

I don't think it will have gone through any sort of run in procedure. But sighted in then cleaned. He does clean after every outting though.

​

 

[venator cervus]

The issue is not the cost - £6500 buys posh wood etc.. it does not alter the accuracy of a Sauer 202 whether it be £1,500 or £6,500. Rather, your friend needs to experiment with different types of ammunition and different weights, find one that he likes and sick to it. That takes time, patience and some range work i.e. practice - all of which appears to be sadly lacking from the 'I need it fixed now approach.' Further, there is a complete difference in contacting Sauer and contacting the British importer [Garlands.] The service from Sauer by email is very good and they will have a considered opinion on the information you supply. A general discussion on whose rifle does what and what rifle is best is inconsequential with respect, albeit amusing. Fact: Sauer produces extremely accurate rifles - rather like a car - the tyres, oil and petrol choice and dare I say it the driver all make a significant difference.

 

[Lateral]

The issue is not the cost - £6500 buys posh wood etc.. it does not alter the accuracy of a Sauer 202 whether it be £1,500 or £6,500. Rather, your friend needs to experiment with different types of ammunition and different weights, find one that he likes and sick to it. That takes time, patience and some range work i.e. practice - all of which appears to be sadly lacking from the 'I need it fixed now approach.' Further, there is a complete difference in contacting Sauer and contacting the British importer [Garlands.] The service from Sauer by email is very good and they will have a considered opinion on the information you supply. A general discussion on whose rifle does what and what rifle is best is inconsequential with respect, albeit amusing. Fact: Sauer produces extremely accurate rifles - rather like a car - the tyres, oil and petrol choice and dare I say it the driver all make a significant difference.

I have to disagree. For £6500.00, yes I would expect a high quality piece of wood for the stock, but I'd also expect a high grade barrel, not a mass produced one. I'd also expect all the parts to be blueprinted, and hand assembled. Then tested on a range, and a target provided to show how it can shoot, and with what ammunition.

You should not need to work your way though multitudes of factory ammunition to find what will shoot, neither should you have to spend hours doing load development, or pay someone else to do it. Unless this is something that is made very clear to you, prior to buying the rifle.

As far as I'm concerned, I wouldn't own a rifle that doesn't shoot 1" or better at 100yds, (double rifle excluded) because on those occasions where it is appropriate for me to me shooting beyond 200yds, I want to be concentrating on the shot, not worrying where the bullet is going to end up !



Mark.

 

[gixer1]

I have to disagree. For £6500.00, yes I would expect a high quality piece of wood for the stock, but I'd also expect a high grade barrel, not a mass produced one. I'd also expect all the parts to be blueprinted, and hand assembled. Then tested on a range, and a target provided to show how it can shoot, and with what ammunition.

You should not need to work your way though multitudes of factory ammunition to find what will shoot, neither should you have to spend hours doing load development, or pay someone else to do it. Unless this is something that is made very clear to you, prior to buying the rifle.

As far as I'm concerned, I wouldn't own a rifle that doesn't shoot 1" or better at 100yds, (double rifle excluded) because on those occasions where it is appropriate for me to me shooting beyond 200yds, I want to be concentrating on the shot, not worrying where the bullet is going to end up !



Mark.

The barrels are all high grade on a sauer - as has been said above - they are known for making extremely accurate rifles - the extra cost is usually based on the wood and engraving.

regards,
​gixer