Scotland the Brave??
- Thread starter Foxyboy43
- Start date
Sinistral
Well-Known Member
BBC Summary
- The BBC projects 63 seats for the SNP - 2 short of an overall majority of 65.
- Of the 71 first-past-the-post constituencies called so far the SNP has taken 59 and is expected to win the final two
- If the party was to achieve an overall majority it would need 4 regional list seats but it is predicted to get just 2.
- The fortunes of the pro-independence Scottish Green Party, which fielded few constituency candidates, will emerge when the list results come in
- As things stand on the constituency contest, the Scottish Conservatives have 5 seats; the Scottish Liberal Democrats hold 4, and Scottish Labour has 2.
- The BBC is now projecting the SNP will end up with 63 MSPs, the Tories will get 31 MSPs, Labour 22, the Greens 9, and the Lib Dems 4
- What is now certain is the SNP will form the next Scottish government - a historic fourth consecutive win for the nationalists
- Smaller parties, including former Scottish first minister Alex Salmond's Alba and George Galloway's All for Unity, are expected to win nothing
Malxwal
Well-Known Member
One can only hope that should it progress (if that is the appropriate to term) to referendum and then onto independence, the Greens lose any sway in matters, and that those who form a ruling majority have to take very careful stock of what things bring much needed income to Scotland, and realise that fieldsports are a considerable attraction.
Freeforester
Well-Known Member
They might take a look at how independence has worked out for the people of Slovakia, and what became of their erstwhile politicians who exhorted their people to make the break, and the economic prospects of said people today, and whilst they’re at it, of other ‘fiscally-challenged’ EU deep-end-encies of a minor and peripheral nature, not that Scotland would be eligible to qualify for accession to that crumbling edifice within a decade of any pro-independence rush-of-blood-to-the-head.
Maybe the Natsis‘ dumbing down of educational standards has a reason after all, but I still don’t see folk wishing to devalue their pension value and any assets by 30% or so for the fantasy ’freedom’ being promoted. That said, anyone too challenged to avoid reading the small print where the future of their shirt is concerned is well placed to reap the consequences, it’s the hapless ones who did not really intend to ‘buy a pup‘ (you think dogs are expensive now? Just wait!), but end up with rather less than they may end paying sweetly for.
Maybe the Natsis‘ dumbing down of educational standards has a reason after all, but I still don’t see folk wishing to devalue their pension value and any assets by 30% or so for the fantasy ’freedom’ being promoted. That said, anyone too challenged to avoid reading the small print where the future of their shirt is concerned is well placed to reap the consequences, it’s the hapless ones who did not really intend to ‘buy a pup‘ (you think dogs are expensive now? Just wait!), but end up with rather less than they may end paying sweetly for.
And there you have it:
7. What is now certain is the SNP will form the next Scottish Government - a historic fourth consecutive win for the nationalists.
K
7. What is now certain is the SNP will form the next Scottish Government - a historic fourth consecutive win for the nationalists.
K
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
My view. The BREXIT vote demonstrated that people give little weight to economic arguments. It was very clear, and has been subsequently demonstrated that BREXIT will have significant harm on the economy, yet the majority still voted for it, and given the recent results most still believe the Tory spin machine.
So all of those who are saying the Scots would be bust, broke etc - well you didn’t listen to those arguments against BREXIT, so would the Scots listen to the same arguments.
I have no doubt that Scotland could be a perfectly viable little country if it was on its own. For one thing there would be much less of a brain and talent drain Southwards. Some of the best, Ruth Davidson, Rory Stewart etc and worst, Michael Gove of Scotland’s politicians aren’t in Scotland, instead prefer Westminster - their talent would be in Scotland.
As for getting back in the EU - it would take its time, but its already clear that being part the Customs Union and free trade area would not really be an issue. Besides Northern Ireland is already there.
UK has a lot of challenges going forward, lack of investment for one. And comparing notes with colleagues in Amsterdam we are well left behind - thats my view based on day to day conversations with those involved in the next generation of technologies. UK was the leader in Europe, it really is not any longer. And Gunboat politics really doesn’t help.
Scotland is still just pro-union - I think, but it’s very much not in favour of Westminster and the direction of travel of the Westminster government. I think the union is really in the gift of Westminster. At the moment we are not seeing any benefits of BREXIT, nor any sign of sunlit uplands. Scotland has been badly affected by BREXIT. If Westminster can re establish the fantastic trading and international relationships it promised and the Scots could benefit then perhaps the views will swing pro-union, but on its current course - no chance.
Would the SNP remain in power post independence. One would like to think not. But who knows.
So all of those who are saying the Scots would be bust, broke etc - well you didn’t listen to those arguments against BREXIT, so would the Scots listen to the same arguments.
I have no doubt that Scotland could be a perfectly viable little country if it was on its own. For one thing there would be much less of a brain and talent drain Southwards. Some of the best, Ruth Davidson, Rory Stewart etc and worst, Michael Gove of Scotland’s politicians aren’t in Scotland, instead prefer Westminster - their talent would be in Scotland.
As for getting back in the EU - it would take its time, but its already clear that being part the Customs Union and free trade area would not really be an issue. Besides Northern Ireland is already there.
UK has a lot of challenges going forward, lack of investment for one. And comparing notes with colleagues in Amsterdam we are well left behind - thats my view based on day to day conversations with those involved in the next generation of technologies. UK was the leader in Europe, it really is not any longer. And Gunboat politics really doesn’t help.
Scotland is still just pro-union - I think, but it’s very much not in favour of Westminster and the direction of travel of the Westminster government. I think the union is really in the gift of Westminster. At the moment we are not seeing any benefits of BREXIT, nor any sign of sunlit uplands. Scotland has been badly affected by BREXIT. If Westminster can re establish the fantastic trading and international relationships it promised and the Scots could benefit then perhaps the views will swing pro-union, but on its current course - no chance.
Would the SNP remain in power post independence. One would like to think not. But who knows.
Given that 70% of Scotland’s trade is with the UK, in what way has it been badly affected by Brexit?
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
The 30% that goes to Europe - fishing, agriculture, whisky, all financial services - a lot of Edinburghs financial distract was the back office for major European operations - those are all now in Amsterdam.
And all the tech and life science companies are setting up European operations as that is where all their major markets, investment and talent can be found.
All the latter effects are not captured in the numbers - but are real lost opportunities.
bobjs
Well-Known Member
I wonder where his right hand is ?
i just dislike the fact that they keep using the D word to win votes. I am a sweaty sock but am i glad i live down here,
hope everyone on here is well,
bob.
Rasputin
Well-Known Member
Let them have their bloody vote with the caveats that from day x the money tap gets turned off if you vote leave. Oh and btw people born in Scotland will now need visa to work in the UK and have the right number of points same as anyone else. The next to immediate brain drain will have Scotland on its knees in no time and they will be so desperate for cash we might get some cut price stalking and fishing out of it.
Oh and rebuild Hadrian’s wall just as a point of principle.
Oh and rebuild Hadrian’s wall just as a point of principle.
Scandially
Well-Known Member
It might come as a surprise that people like you fuel the fire in some Scots hearts.
Malxwal
Well-Known Member
Do you not think many of those businesses would have been prone towards relocation to mainland Europe if the prospect of Scottish Independence became more of a reality ?
Rasputin
Well-Known Member
Good maybe they will get of their arses and actually vote it through this time instead of a bunch of sabre rattling politicians constantly banging the drum.
I’m all for the Scots having their independence but like us with Brexit that comes with consequences good and bad. Until you get on with it you never know.
Malxwal
Well-Known Member
Catch 22, if there wasn't so much bile spewed out by the SNP on behalf of the Scots (even those of us who are happy to remain in the Union), then the English would not tire of it and be driven to such feelings on the matter.
If you want independence against the best wishes and interests of the Union, you really shouldn't be dictating terms. Leave, with zero support and hard border, expect no less.
Although the SNP are crowing about a historic victory, which it may be in terms of seat number it is highly likely that their percentage of the total vote are gone down. I am not a betting man but I reckon that the if there was another Indy referendum tomorrow percentage of those that supported them in the Holyrood election would not support independence. It may still be close but I don't think the mood of teh majority is for independence,
countrryboy
Well-Known Member
Wot I can not understand with all this is many calling for a hard border, esp so now as both countries will be outside the EU, which wasn't the case at the original refernendum.
Yet they never shouted for 1 with Eire and NI ( Even thou 1 side actually waged a war and bombed this country, and they were the side not anting the border)
Trying to work with no hard border there as lead to us being well and truely shafted in the Brexit negotiations, as EU knew that and had us bent over a barrel to keep it open.
To me it just comes across as pure bitterness and can't rally see much point as just as most of s it's trade is with England they also trade a lot with Scotland.
Now we're both out the EU they're is no real reason for it, would just cost both countries and companies/haulage folk time and money.
Yet they never shouted for 1 with Eire and NI ( Even thou 1 side actually waged a war and bombed this country, and they were the side not anting the border)
Trying to work with no hard border there as lead to us being well and truely shafted in the Brexit negotiations, as EU knew that and had us bent over a barrel to keep it open.
To me it just comes across as pure bitterness and can't rally see much point as just as most of s it's trade is with England they also trade a lot with Scotland.
Now we're both out the EU they're is no real reason for it, would just cost both countries and companies/haulage folk time and money.
Certainly not an emphatic victory for pro independence.
The final share of the vote for the pro-independence parties combined on the two ballots is as follows:
The final share of the vote for the pro-independence parties combined on the two ballots is as follows:
- Constituency vote 49
- List vote 50.1
The biggest worry especially if the SNP don't get the 65 seats, is the Greens, just like the DPD in Ireland who kept Theresa may in power, the Greens will keep the SNP in a comfortable position, and as such will make demands, and Hunting will go, they are into free roaming of wildlife.
If you look at the infrastructure needed to go independent like Passports, Driving licences, NHS, Army, Police, Social Security benefits, etc, etc one has to ask how much it will cost the population.
The other thing is, although they will claim a mandate for Independence, if you look at the vote they received it is far below the 50% needed taking into account the total voting population, most Parties that have gained power in the UK, have very rarely achieved 40% of the actual vote of the people, so if there is another vote for independence, is should be on the proviso that unless 90% of the people vote , the ballot should be voided.
On a personal note, I think it would actually be better for the remains of the UK if Scotland actually become independent, providing that they face the consequences they will undoubtably face, without getting any support from us, remember we actually embraced Scotland into the UK when they were bankrupt, and it should be made clear we won't do it again.
I don't know exactly what benefit if any, we actually get from Scotland, so I am not sure what we would actually lose by allowing them Independence, and what we would gain.
I do know that Boris will do all he can to stop the call for Independence, as he would not like to be known as the PM who oversaw the breakup of the union, although he came close to doing that within the Brexit negotiations, in regard to NI.
As they say "Onwards and upwards", only we may have to stop at Hadrians Wall (even though it is in England)
If you look at the infrastructure needed to go independent like Passports, Driving licences, NHS, Army, Police, Social Security benefits, etc, etc one has to ask how much it will cost the population.
The other thing is, although they will claim a mandate for Independence, if you look at the vote they received it is far below the 50% needed taking into account the total voting population, most Parties that have gained power in the UK, have very rarely achieved 40% of the actual vote of the people, so if there is another vote for independence, is should be on the proviso that unless 90% of the people vote , the ballot should be voided.
On a personal note, I think it would actually be better for the remains of the UK if Scotland actually become independent, providing that they face the consequences they will undoubtably face, without getting any support from us, remember we actually embraced Scotland into the UK when they were bankrupt, and it should be made clear we won't do it again.
I don't know exactly what benefit if any, we actually get from Scotland, so I am not sure what we would actually lose by allowing them Independence, and what we would gain.
I do know that Boris will do all he can to stop the call for Independence, as he would not like to be known as the PM who oversaw the breakup of the union, although he came close to doing that within the Brexit negotiations, in regard to NI.
As they say "Onwards and upwards", only we may have to stop at Hadrians Wall (even though it is in England)
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