Scottish deer management - new legislative proposals

[Mick9abf]

While some of the proposals, of which I have no doubt are already a done deal or will be forced through by the incumbent shower of crap that infests Holyrood, seem reasonable prima facia I have some concerns.

I’ve not even ready through the whole preamble but find some of the wording and tone concerning from the outset.

Note specific words like ‘uplands’, ‘peat land’, ‘grazing pressure’ and replace them with the actual targets which to me appear to be sporting estates, grouse moors, upland farms/crofts (read sheep farming including the association with specific sporting estates and their tick control programs) etc and think how this could be developed and used to control other sectors like farming in general. When you consider how the protection of blue hares (although getting a control licence for forestry is no bother) and more recently the Muirburn legislation got passed with several additions like the use of dogs for hunting bolted on last minute at the end and you’ll maybe get the picture. They then justify everything by mentioning ‘climate emergency and targets’ as a force field to stop any relevant questions like food security etc.

If you overlay what is being ‘discussed’ with the Scottish Governments Land Reform Policy, their proposals for creating further ‘national parks’ including current proposals which were within the Cairngorm National Park, generally rewilding everything or planting trees and wind farms it seems like a way to devalue land or make it financially unviable for certain uses other than what the SNP/Green coalition see as a rural utopia.

NatureScot is a quango and will do whatever it is told to do by those who pay the piper and I’m not sure this will necessarily prove to be good legislation, I’m not speaking about deer seasons and associated stuff but more the potential wider impacts when the mission creep sets in, which it absolutely will. My opinion, for what it’s worth, is this is a slippery slope to more legislation and micro management.

I do think that the various groups like @Conor O'Gorman BASC and the NFU Scotland, GWCT etc really need to get their heads together about this and look at the future impacts amd threats to the industry and how they can be mitigated.

 

[David Barker]

Over the last 10 years or more the effort by SNH/Naturescot was focused on the upland areas of Scotland (Deer forests) These areas have i am told got there deer down to low density,s. Still we have negative impacts on the trees (Environment Link ). With 50.000 extra deer to cull i fear they will now turn there attention to the lowlands. Lucky for the deer managers in the central and southern area the SNP/Greens are out of cash.

 

[Mick9abf]

Over the last 10 years or more the effort by SNH/Naturescot was focused on the upland areas of Scotland (Deer forests) These areas have i am told got there deer down to low density,s. Still we have negative impacts on the trees (Environment Link ). With 50.000 extra deer to cull i fear they will now turn there attention to the lowlands. Lucky for the deer managers in the central and southern area the SNP/Greens are out of cash.

While they may be skint, have at least one criminal investigation into finances and another enquiry into other funds and loans in the pipeline, they do still have the power to force through legislation to suit their agenda and will have for at least another year unfortunately.

It has been publicly stated by a SC&U MSP that when the tenure of this shower ends it will take at least a year just to debate and overturn some of the poor legislation that they and the Greens have passed and I have genuine concerns that Scottish Labour (who’s votes the SNP gained to put them into power when they crashed and burned), and who are touted as taking back control of Holyrood, won’t be much better when it comes to the rural economy and fieldsports.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

Thanks, that's a good shout, there is ambiguity on this as the response form question refs 'everyone' yet the consultation doc refs 'everyone shooting deer unaccompained'. I will raise this with colleagues next week.

Unaccompanied by who?
Does it say anywhere what the status of the accompanying person should be, or could any two unqualified individuals go stalking together and therefore meet the suggested criteria?

There is some ambiguity around the detail of this proposal and whether it is for unaccompanied deer managers or everyone shooting deer. BASC supports industry-led voluntary training and is opposed to the introduction of mandatory competence testing for any form of shooting.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

While some of the proposals, of which I have no doubt are already a done deal or will be forced through by the incumbent shower of crap that infests Holyrood, seem reasonable prima facia I have some concerns.

I’ve not even ready through the whole preamble but find some of the wording and tone concerning from the outset.

Note specific words like ‘uplands’, ‘peat land’, ‘grazing pressure’ and replace them with the actual targets which to me appear to be sporting estates, grouse moors, upland farms/crofts (read sheep farming including the association with specific sporting estates and their tick control programs) etc and think how this could be developed and used to control other sectors like farming in general. When you consider how the protection of blue hares (although getting a control licence for forestry is no bother) and more recently the Muirburn legislation got passed with several additions like the use of dogs for hunting bolted on last minute at the end and you’ll maybe get the picture. They then justify everything by mentioning ‘climate emergency and targets’ as a force field to stop any relevant questions like food security etc.

If you overlay what is being ‘discussed’ with the Scottish Governments Land Reform Policy, their proposals for creating further ‘national parks’ including current proposals which were within the Cairngorm National Park, generally rewilding everything or planting trees and wind farms it seems like a way to devalue land or make it financially unviable for certain uses other than what the SNP/Green coalition see as a rural utopia.

NatureScot is a quango and will do whatever it is told to do by those who pay the piper and I’m not sure this will necessarily prove to be good legislation, I’m not speaking about deer seasons and associated stuff but more the potential wider impacts when the mission creep sets in, which it absolutely will. My opinion, for what it’s worth, is this is a slippery slope to more legislation and micro management.

I do think that the various groups like @Conor O'Gorman BASC and the NFU Scotland, GWCT etc really need to get their heads together about this and look at the future impacts amd threats to the industry and how they can be mitigated.

I know what you mean and the various rural groups regularly meet and get their heads together on challenging all these issues and more. Also the following video may be of interest on the political work.

 

[Bowland blades]

For those worried about taking a level one , i am sure you can still do it " test only " . For those who are complaining just about every developed nation asks for this kind of " hunter qualification"
Least pregnant hinds and does get some protection ! That was all that worried me , I am an active stalker and wish to remain so as long as i can , hence i took all the quals years ago ans got onto the Scottish register , night licence etc etc . Its just how the wild is now , I am old enough to have had a 7.5 tonne from 17 year old and used it around that age though i dont that changing was particularly a bad thing .

 

[One on top of two]

Indeed, i think we should ensure that anyone able to make executive parliamentary decisions on deer management all have min. Dsc2

FFS

 

[Heym SR20]

And meanwhile hares have a close season and mountain hares are fully protected.

I have a peace of ground which FLS have acquired the adjacent former grazing land. They have fenced it, shot all the deer and planted it with trees. It’s now full of hares, which have eaten all the litte trees - have sat and watched them doing so.

 

[Tulloch]

DMNRO's that ate being proposed have a double edged swords .
I can't respond right now my thoughts publicly as it has wider implications

 

[EckyP243]

Here we go !!
You can’t shoot deer unless you are “ trained” and on the “ register”

And so it begins .
Shooting associations should be against this .

Agreed! Thats what I was thinking too but I see BASC have come out in support. I’ve sent an email to BASC to try and understand their position.

 

[David Barker]

Agreed! Thats what I was thinking too but I see BASC have come out in support. I’ve sent an email to BASC to try and understand their position.

Sadly BASC will need to support this as they have a vested interest to keep Scottish ministers happy. Arran will be BASC,s as long as they support new recommendations. The sad thing is if there is a set standard brought in then we will loose a lot of good deer manager,s. This will only add to the amount of deer we need to bring under control. SGA had the correct idea and that was to leave the consultation and go direct to ministers and there Aid,s. Sadly it looks like LDNS have followed suit and the one man team has supported this in principle.

 

[Mickeydredd]

Personal I’d rather have something and not need it than not have it and then need it makes life easier.

Especially when it is so easy to do and costs nothing.

 

[Bowland blades]

And meanwhile hares have a close season and mountain hares are fully protected.

I have a peace of ground which FLS have acquired the adjacent former grazing land. They have fenced it, shot all the deer and planted it with trees. It’s now full of hares, which have eaten all the litte trees - have sat and watched them doing so.

Establishing new laid hedging is a real pain with a high Hare population . Somewhat taller new stock and the damage is quite limited as they can't then reach the growing bud though ( this applies not just to hedging but in this case replant ) .

 

[Heym SR20]

Establishing new laid hedging is a real pain with a high Hare population . Somewhat taller new stock and the damage is quite limited as they can't then reach the growing bud though ( this applies not just to hedging but in this case replant ) .

Don’t even mention Mountain Hares - now fully protected. They don’t like their open moorlands being covered in trees so they take their revenge

 

[Bowland blades]

Yeah i only think in terms of the Brown Hare and they are well down in number from where they where just a few years back in Bowland . might be 4 years or more i stopped ( previously very high numbers here )