Semi auto shotgun

[Deerhunter22]

So I bought a semi auto , steel shot proof bought for wildfowling. Took it to clays yesterday to try it out and I hadn’t realised I already loaded two cartridges so put another in unbeknown to me I already had two in hit and so now had 3 65mm in the mag and one in the chamber. Now Shotguns on a normal shotgun ticket is 2+1 so now really I have this 3+1 managed to get three 21gm into the hold and 1 in the chamber.
Told the shop I got it from (bought yesterday) that it’s holding up to 3. Being told it’s due to the ability to hold Magnums, just want to be absolutely sure so asking on here too that’s all to be sure

What’s the thoughts here ?
I really don’t want to be fkd over by anything or anyone needlessly

 

[muddy42]

Its a well known quirk called ghost loading. You dont mention what make you have, but do some googling with your make of gun and the words ghost loading. Yes sometimes it only works for shorter shells. I don't think it puts your licence at risk if you only load 2+1?

 

[Greenmist]

Its a well known quirk called ghost loading. You dont mention what make you have, but do some googling with your make of gun and the words ghost loading. Yes sometimes it only works for shorter shells. I don't think it puts your licence at risk if you only load 2+1?

Ghost loading isn't all cartridges in the mag, you have the mag full, one in the chamber and one on the carrier below the bolt, what appears to have happened with the op is simple, the gun is likely a 3" or 3 1/2" chamber so the mag tube is longer to accommodate the longer cartridges and he loaded shorter ones which took up the same space

 

[Deerhunter22]

Ghost loading isn't all cartridges in the mag, you have the mag full, one in the chamber and one on the carrier below the bolt, what appears to have happened with the op is simple, the gun is likely a 3" or 3 1/2" chamber so the mag tube is longer to accommodate the longer cartridges and he loaded shorter ones which took up the same space

It does sound like this is the case, I’m just wanting to be absolutely sure. I trust the RFD and the seller I just want to be sure.
Maybe just the cartridges I used then, if soo then it’s good should be grand.
I doubt any licensing would ever figure it out or look but I also don’t want to run that risk they do and be hammered for it.
thought it was safer just to have it checked out that’s all anyways sounds like it’s all good then hopefully hear back from them and pick it up then if alls good
Cheers guys

 

[Smellydog]

Yep it happens, even better on a 3.5" chambered gun.

 

[Stimo444]

I had a Franchi Affinity 3” that would take 3 x 2 3/4” cartridges in the tube and one in chamber and assume that it was legal

 

[Tarquin]

If you use 50mm carts you could probably get 5 in! I think the 2 plus 1 would presumably revolve around 70mm cartridges.

 

[wanderer]

I would struggle to get more than 2 in my Browning Twelvette..

 

[Greenmist]

It does sound like this is the case, I’m just wanting to be absolutely sure. I trust the RFD and the seller I just want to be sure.
Maybe just the cartridges I used then, if soo then it’s good should be grand.
I doubt any licensing would ever figure it out or look but I also don’t want to run that risk they do and be hammered for it.
thought it was safer just to have it checked out that’s all anyways sounds like it’s all good then hopefully hear back from them and pick it up then if alls good
Cheers guys

Look on the barrel, the chamber length should be stamped on, if its designed for wildfowling its likely 3" or 3 1/2", your clay cartridges were 2 3/4 I'm guessing

 

[Bowland blades]

All the 3 1/2" chambered guns can fit 4 shells in . The home office would have known , not sure anyone has ever ended up in front of a judge but common sense seems to prevail . To willfully put an extra shot shell in would of course go that way ( though stoppages would be common ) , its also possible to make real short shells that will work extra short loads with a pump .
Finding another shell you did get mixed is far better found
Having a good visual look to clear

 

[Deerhunter22]

Look on the barrel, the chamber length should be stamped on, if its designed for wildfowling its likely 3" or 3 1/2", your clay cartridges were 2 3/4 I'm guessing

Well maybe this is just a case of me not knowing enough an panicking
Will look later on

 

[Smellydog]

If it has a proof stamp on the magtube forget about it.

 

[Heym SR20]

Couple of comments.

1) case length is the length of the cartridge case when it is opened, ie it has fired a shot. Measuring the length of a unfired cartridge is misleading.

2) semi autos are designed with other terratories in mind where the 2 3/4” cartridge is the norm.

3) some of the lightly loaded 2 1/2” inch cartridges use a star crimp. Given that then have very little shot in there, they are not very long - a touch over 2”. So concievably a gun designed to take 2 31/2” cartridges, could fit 3 cartridges if you pushed in.

In my experience though the little lightly loaded cartridges don’t really run well in a semi.

And most clay grounds only like semis to be loaded with a max of two cartridges- one in chamber, one in magazine.

 

[Heym SR20]

Finally any shotgun that is sold as a shotgun in the UK will have its magazine tube crimped as part of the original manufacture to prevent more than two cartridges being loaded and it will have passed proof as such, and be sold as a section 2 Shotgun.

Provided it has not been modified, nor have you modified your cartridges then you have done everything reasonable and can provide a reasonable defence.

 

[Geoff9]

I've spent a lot of time around S.2 restrictions to tube magazine shotguns. Ive also spent a lot of time around ghost loading in my now retired-from practical shotgun days.
My own gun is a Beretta Xtrema 2, sold as a wildfowling gun but I found to be excellent for everything else too. It is now restricted to S.2 but as it is proofed for 3.5" cartridges the restriction to the magazine is such that only 2 such cartridges can be in the magazine it thus complies absolutely with the law.
It may well be possible to load 4 x 2 inch roll crimp cartridges in the magazine and another ghost load so a total of 6. Ive never tried as I've not had 2 inch cartridges for years. It's possible that the lower power of 2" cartridges will cause a failure to feed in a auto. They may however work perfectly in a 3.5" pump.
If your gun has a correctly marked magazine restriction then you can put in as many as you like.

 

[Smallholder]

If your gun has a correctly marked magazine restriction then you can put in as many as you like.

Can you legally put in more than 2 in a mag tube of a S2? I know more than two 2" cartridges will fit but I thought you would be braking the law to load 3?

Only asking as I shoot slug comps (at an approved range etc) and it would be useful in some comps to be able to load more than two in the mag.

 

[Geoff9]

You will not be breaking the law.
You may fall foul of the comp organisers if you break their rules of the class or division that you are competing in.
Clarify with them or be accused of cheating and thus DQed

 

[enfieldspares]

So I bought a semi auto , steel shot proof bought for wildfowling.

The OP's 2 + 1 will be lawful if they can get no more than two of the maximum length configuration of the cartridge length the gun is proved for.

So if a modern self-loader chambered for 89mm aka 3 1/2" cartridges (so should be long enough to take two of roll turnover type) it may well indeed chamber three petal crimped 65mm aka 2.5" cartridges. If made as 2 + 1 it will likely bear no magazine restriction mark and is not required to do so. The Webley Sportsman .410" and the Spanish Norica .410" are both 2 + 1 albeit bolt action and neither have the MR stamp. Made as = not required.

Converted down from a higher capacity = required. If made as multishot and than later the magazine has been restricted it will bear an MR Proof Mark. Which BOTH my 1960's Browning A5 in 12 bore and 16 bore do.

In either case the OP will be lawful in the circumstances as detailed above. If it left the factory as higher capacity and down converted AFTER arrival into the UK and it does NOT bear the MR stamp it may not be lawful.

 

[Heym SR20]

The OP's 2 + 1 will be lawful if they can get no more than two of the maximum length configuration of the cartridge length the gun is proved for.

So if a modern self-loader chambered for 89mm aka 3 1/2" cartridges (so should be long enough to take two of roll turnover type) it may well indeed chamber three petal crimped 65mm aka 2.5" cartridges. If made as 2 + 1 it will likely bear no magazine restriction mark and is not required to do so. The Webley Sportsman .410" and the Spanish Norica .410" are both 2 + 1 albeit bolt action and neither have the MR stamp. Made as = not required.

Converted down from a higher capacity = required. If made as multishot and than later the magazine has been restricted it will bear an MR Proof Mark. Which BOTH my 1960's Browning A5 in 12 bore and 16 bore do.

In either case the OP will be lawful in the circumstances as detailed above. If it left the factory as higher capacity and down converted AFTER arrival into the UK and it does NOT bear the MR stamp it may not be lawful.

Completely off topic - sorry, but what is the sweet 16 Browning A5 like. Are they really sweet, or are they not??

 

[enfieldspares]

Completely off topic - sorry, but what is the sweet 16 Browning A5 like. Are they really sweet, or are they not??

Hello. I have started a thread in Other Shooting and Keepering titled Browning A5 16 Bore