the problem I see is the lack of demand for venison. I could shoot more deer than I do but I have no outlet for the venison so just give it away to friends. I dont mind this but its a lot of work to prep the meat and theres only so much I can give away. Its actually a deterrent for me to pull the trigger because I see the work after....
Shoot more deer or see more deer that is the question?
- Thread starter Tulloch
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You will find that there is a demand for venison, if you've got the time and inclination to promote and market it.
If you haven't, and if as a result you're not shooting enough deer, perhaps hand over some of your ground to someone who has, and just keep enough ground to provide carcasses for your own domestic requirements, as that's all you need if you don't want the hassle of marketing.
south-nofolk-stalker
Well-Known Member
the whole problem with that is, is your working for nothing.
Take in all or your costs, take a wage which no body does because it’s all £ notes.
Like I’ve said 100 times before, as a qualified butcher, any deer that’s in my larder owes me £15/hr plus running costs, before you even start to think about getting your hands dirty.
The problem is nobody thinks like that and to do it properly you need to think like that, I’d like to see any Fred in the shed come and clear my larder after a weekend in the winter with 8 to 10 large lowland hinds And then skin butcher package clean tidy that lot, and then tell me that it’s worth it.
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Kevinthenovice
Member
I might be moving off topic slightly. In scotland the situation is there are too many deer. Calculated using HIA, and too many deer for habitats to recover. Habitat regeneration may not be every stalkers objective, but its the government's and they call the shots.
As stalkers we are not necessarily in control. The landowners is responsible for the deer on their land. The government should just set blanket densities across Scotland and let the landowner deliver this density. The government needs to provide the infrastructure to help the landowner achieve this.
I think the deer populations coukd be reduced. I think landowners if incentived could do it. I wonder if the sticking point is stalkers themselves. Are we prepared to lower roe deer populations to 3-5 deer per km2? Reds need dropped to atleast 10. This is the direction of travel (whether we like it or not).
Im not so sure the voluntary approach works. It's supposed to allow landowners to sustainably manage deer numbers. Deer numbers are out of hand.
Is it time to try some other method of managing deer? Split the country into grids, give each stalkers a grid, government set quotas, tags. Obviously the government pays the landowners compensation. We end up with more people stalking smaller areas, instead of the few hoarding large scale. The stuff quo is working, so let's try something else.
As stalkers we are not necessarily in control. The landowners is responsible for the deer on their land. The government should just set blanket densities across Scotland and let the landowner deliver this density. The government needs to provide the infrastructure to help the landowner achieve this.
I think the deer populations coukd be reduced. I think landowners if incentived could do it. I wonder if the sticking point is stalkers themselves. Are we prepared to lower roe deer populations to 3-5 deer per km2? Reds need dropped to atleast 10. This is the direction of travel (whether we like it or not).
Im not so sure the voluntary approach works. It's supposed to allow landowners to sustainably manage deer numbers. Deer numbers are out of hand.
Is it time to try some other method of managing deer? Split the country into grids, give each stalkers a grid, government set quotas, tags. Obviously the government pays the landowners compensation. We end up with more people stalking smaller areas, instead of the few hoarding large scale. The stuff quo is working, so let's try something else.
Yes, you have said it at least 100 times before! In fact, I think you just copied and pasted the above from an earlier thread
It's one of those things that works out OK for some people and not for others. If someone is making a go of it then fair play to them. At least they're promoting venison and shifting carcasses, which is more than many stalkers do. And on that basis alone, if they need to take on more ground to satisfy demand then someone else should move aside to let them.
The retail value of an average sized fallow doe is around £350, so there's definitely opportunities out there for anyone who really wants to do the job properly.
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big ears
Well-Known Member
Spot on I’ve said this before. Make it the landowners responsibility, reward when they do it, fine when they don’t. It’s all about pound notes with most landowners.
big ears
Well-Known Member
I think that is the point and well made.Yes, you have said it at least 100 times before! In fact, I think you just copied and pasted the above from an earlier thread
It's one of those things that works out OK for some people and not for others. If someone is making a go of it then fair play to them. At least they're promoting venison and shifting carcasses, which is more than many stalkers do. And on that basis alone, if they need to take on more ground to satisfy demand then someone else should move aside to let them.
The retail value of an average sized fallow doe is around £350, so there's definitely opportunities out there for anyone who really wants to do the job properly.
It’s hard graft for that return. Put it into hourly rate and many won’t contemplate. Particularly not the younger lot who are told they are worth so much more
I know you say the market is out there and I agree it could be expanded BUT it will never replace other red meats. It’s a shame but that’s the reality. That’s not to say you could expand a local market but in my view seeing it in every butcher/supermarket is not going to happen.
I would say that the younger lot are exactly the ones who are best placed to grab the opportunity and run with it. I'm not talking about part-timers cutting up a few carcasses for pocket money, but those who want to make a proper business out of it.I think that is the point and well made.
It’s hard graft for that return. Put it into hourly rate and many won’t contemplate. Particularly not the younger lot who are told they are worth so much more
I know you say the market is out there and I agree it could be expanded BUT it will never replace other red meats. It’s a shame but that’s the reality. That’s not to say you could expand a local market but in my view seeing it in every butcher/supermarket is not going to happen.
Several have, and are doing pretty well it would seem.
For example:
south-nofolk-stalker
Well-Known Member
£350 lovely now take your costs out including a wageYes, you have said it at least 100 times before! In fact, I think you just copied and pasted the above from an earlier thread
It's one of those things that works out OK for some people and not for others. If someone is making a go of it then fair play to them. At least they're promoting venison and shifting carcasses, which is more than many stalkers do. And on that basis alone, if they need to take on more ground to satisfy demand then someone else should move aside to let them.
The retail value of an average sized fallow doe is around £350, so there's definitely opportunities out there for anyone who really wants to do the job properly.
Don't you worry, I've done all the sums, and it all works out fine.
Well it's not the job for them then, is it?
But there are plenty who are happy with a more modest return if it gives them the opportunity to do the job they love and be their own boss.
I think if you are business minded, with skills in stalking, butchery, logistics and marketing, then you could turn a good profit from all this, but most Fred in shed are lacking in at least two of those areas. Even those who have all the required skills usually have a career elsewhere and only see deer as a potential secondary income and wouldn’t have the time or energy to bother trying to start a small business for themselves.
A deer owes you a minimum of £15/hr.
If VSS can get £350 out of a fallow doe, how long has he spent on it to get that? Obviously the running costs will decrease per animal, the more animals you process. But I’d say he’s getting back a lot more than £15/hr.
The difference is that VSS is producing a consistent product and wild deer are inconsistent quality, especially when you let someone else supply the carcasses! We’ve all seen horrendously presented carcasses hanging in chillers all over this country and who wants responsibility for that?
I certainly wouldn’t want to have to rely on other people to supply carcasses unless I knew I could trust them 100% to be honest, hygienic and consistent.
Kevinthenovice
Member
It already is the landowners responsibility in Scotland. The problem maybe lack of landowner awareness is some circumstance. Sometimes the landowners also know SNH won't regulate them.
big ears
Well-Known Member
It’s a point well made. To make a living as a solo producer I work out you will need to sell about 200 deer at that rate to make it workable. That’s not including loans for start up. (Based on average income figures from government)
That is feasible IF you can go out and shoot 200 deer a year and be willing to butcher 4 days a week. Then you need to advertise and sell, possibly at weekends in local farmers markets etc.
it is serious hard graft. Many will not take that on.
big ears
Well-Known Member
We could do with that happening in England. Might force the issue a bit more particularly with fallow
south-nofolk-stalker
Well-Known Member
Just your average weekend in Norfolk
Just pointing out that at the deer management coal face cutting your own up is a labour of love and nothing more!
Just pointing out that at the deer management coal face cutting your own up is a labour of love and nothing more!
Only you as an individual can decide if you want to put the graft in !….
Someone said it earlier …. It’s a thought pulling the trigger as yeah you work & time getting the beast bit once that triggers gone the work starts !
Not just the physical but the paperwork, record keeping and once you’ve cleared the larder the cleaning and then it all starts again !
Yes I’m a “Fred I’m a shed “ social media pages & converted double garage , full EHO approved etc.
but I work offshore in oil so it’s part time, and could NEVER compete with my oil wage !
BUT if I was laid off tomorow and no chance of staying in that industry I’d seriously look at upgrading my “sideline”
Problem is even as I have at moment is I have demand but I can’t fill it … I need more ground to be honest but when I do have product I can shift it …. I also have clients who want a whole skinned carcass to do themselves so options to “flip “ occasional beast …
Bit as VSS says you NEED to put time in pushing it to get going , to create that market … nothing comes for free & if was easy or goldmine for half an effort every f&@ker would be doing it !
Paul
Someone said it earlier …. It’s a thought pulling the trigger as yeah you work & time getting the beast bit once that triggers gone the work starts !
Not just the physical but the paperwork, record keeping and once you’ve cleared the larder the cleaning and then it all starts again !
Yes I’m a “Fred I’m a shed “ social media pages & converted double garage , full EHO approved etc.
but I work offshore in oil so it’s part time, and could NEVER compete with my oil wage !
BUT if I was laid off tomorow and no chance of staying in that industry I’d seriously look at upgrading my “sideline”
Problem is even as I have at moment is I have demand but I can’t fill it … I need more ground to be honest but when I do have product I can shift it …. I also have clients who want a whole skinned carcass to do themselves so options to “flip “ occasional beast …
Bit as VSS says you NEED to put time in pushing it to get going , to create that market … nothing comes for free & if was easy or goldmine for half an effort every f&@ker would be doing it !
Paul
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