Least said. soonest mended, but I daresay there are people reading this, who should take note.
Last edited:
Shooting deer at night
- Thread starter Acm
- Start date
Least said. soonest mended, but I daresay there are people reading this, who should take note.
countrryboy
Well-Known Member
I'm not aggainst night shooting but forsetry companies in our area (or the number crunchers in the office) use it as an excuse to not employ enough rangers to do the job they used too. most of the rangers i know are covering an area that 2 or 3 rangers covered 20 years ago, just deer stalking on the cheap. which is wot i don't agree with
I do think the way they are handed out does need looked at thou, but does not deserve some of the stick it gets on here.
If deer are being shot down south on the lamp it is poaching pure and simple so is completely different to shooting under licence
baguio
Well-Known Member
What a ridiculous comment? Please explain how saying nothing ever fixed anything? Maybe your attitude is the very reason why illegal activities are allowed to continue. Some would argue that being aware of illegal activities but doing nothing about it makes you an accessory to the crime? Perhaps, rather than throwing mud on a public forum you should be a little bit more proactive and contact the relevant authorities with all your information, assuming that you have any??? The world is full of people who sit on their fat one moaning and groaning but doing Jack S**t about anything and that is why we still have the bad apples getting up to no good in all walks of life!
Baguio
Last edited:
Can't speak for private forestry companies but Forestry Commission has been and still is under massive pressure to cut costs - and part of that is staff numbers. They are a part of Government and subject to all of the cuts and austerity measure that have been put in place - and it will only get worse following the recent cuts demanded by the Chancellor. Public bodies and services are no longer the bloated organisations they once were and services (and consequently the public) are suffering).
swarovski
Well-Known Member
rules and laws are bent and broken millions of times a day, I will give one simple instance, how many times a day do you go faster than the speed limit on the roads every day,no matter how you percieve it its still illeagal my friend, its still rule or a law just the same as night stalking, regards swaro
baguio
Well-Known Member
Hardly the same as making slanderous and potentially damaging accusations about groups of people on public forums though is it?
Baguio
Last edited:
I was with someone as they rang DEFRA to ask if the night shooting rules applied on MoD land and they said they would get back to him. I haven't seen the chap since. He was also concerned that people had been told to stay away from an area where bullets might be flying about because a deer shoot was being carried out. This was 2 weeks ago, the area concerned is controlled by the MoD. and there are hardly any Roe on it apparently.
Monkey Spanker
Well-Known Member
If you speak to Natural England they will be able to tell you if a night licence has been granted for a particular area. You should also consider that many areas that MOD operate on are not actually owned by the MOD. For example, much of Thetford Forest near me is used by MOD to train on, but it is owned by the FC who also retain the Deer Management responsibility. Probably best to go and get some facts straight rather than start damaging or malicious rumours on an open forum?
MS
countrryboy
Well-Known Member
I understand that, but them never think to sack/not replace one of the numerous bosses, line managers, paper shufflers do they? Some of them must have a full time job finding work to do to cover there arse
All chiefs and NO indains. If a tree blew down over the office gate they'd have to phone a subby in to clear it, local big office doesnae have a singlle cutting maintanece crew left
I thought SNH were there to look after scotlands nature not make FC misorganisation profitable. The privste companies are just as bad althou most have never employed great numbers of stalkers but still covering masive beats that would not be possible otherwise
They should still be granted but not as widely.
Would be intresting to see the size difference between english and scottish rangers beats, bet about 20 years ago would be fairly similar but now will be much larger
swarovski
Well-Known Member
As far as I know my comments are not breaking any laws.speeding is dangerous.probaly the most broken law.poaching has been going on forever and will continue to do so.it doesn't make it right though.if a farmer choose to have the deer shot at night you would think owning this land he could.there is some funny rules around.i know a farmer who owns his own carp fishing lake.he has still got to buy a rod lisence 
lol
lolWhat complete pish! You obviously have no idea how public organisations like FC work. They don't have a lack of "indians" through choice. The head count is completely controlled by central Government - both to reduce budgets and to encourage money to be diverted to private small businesses (which contact stalkers are). Central Govt will allow money to be spent on contractors but not on employing any more Indians, the "chiefs" are needed to manage these contractors.
I work with FC - but have nothing to do with the deer management teams, and I can tell you that more Chiefs jobs have disappeared than Indians.
Yes, lots of recreational stalkers have their back up about FC. Usually this is sour grapes because they can't easily get a permission, but recreation stalking simply was not yielding the required culls.
If you are a contractor with a cull target to meet in order to get paid you will go out on a cold ****y wet morning. If you are a recreational stalker whose freezer is full you are more likely to stay tucked up in bed.
Last edited:
provider
Well-Known Member
6pointer
Well-Known Member
Slider I think you talk some pish also mate. Contractors will do a job but they are being forced to shoot out of season and at night. This is criminal unless you have the necessary licence. These were given out for fun not the intended way. FC know what they are doing is wrong but its easier its not about costs or deer reduction.
Nobody is "forced" do do anything, take the job or not - the contractors choice. Licences are always in place so nothing criminal.
Simple fact is that deer numbers have increased so much that they are a major problem to growing crop and need to be controlled
6pointer
Well-Known Member
For some its a job and they need the money. But to tell them they can only shoot from Oct to March means they cannot shoot in season day light is limited then so must lamp. Why don't FES give them the full year to do it. Licence were in place and were not needed that was criminal and that's why there is an ongoing review. Please don't try and say its all ok because it was not. Even after the review the inter governmental department ombudsman will also investigate so plenty of question to answer for SNH and FES for there part in braking the laws. Unless they are of coarse above it???
Simple fact is that October to March is when trees are most at risk from browsing damage and also happens to be the time of year when stalkers are least likely to leave behind a fawn that needs its mothers care.
Both SNH and FCS are Government agencies and are directed by to the will of Government.
countrryboy
Well-Known Member
Slider i have a fairly good idea how commision is ran, possibly different in wot ever district u are in but in my area almost no idians left but still plenty of bosses/supervisors.
Been planting, respacing and cutting on/off on FC ground for a long time and used to know a lot of the old boys that used to work for them, still know a few that are left.
I've just been lucky enough to buy some ground of the commision for a fraction of its market value because they havenae a clue wot there doing, so i'm over the moon, but as a tax payer heads should be rolling it was an absolute scandal and bloody toture to deal with, my solicitor has never dealt with anything like it before, the left hand never knew wot the right was doing. Considering they have offices full of paper monkeys just to do these things
I have no axe to grind with FC other than its a shame to see the state it's in now and even more so when u speak to the few old timers left and u know how it used to be 20-30 yrs ago. My town was going like a fair with all the forestry minibuses FC/fountains/EFG all used to leave from the paper shop every morning
Some of the restrictions they put on stalking leases and even for some other forestry work are pure job creation just to keep these office monkeys in jobs shuffling needless paper
Have deer number increased so much in the SW scot?
Most of the rangers are shooting more deer than ever but are also covering more ground than ever. If u turned the clock back 20 years they'd be still culling the same ammount but just with 2-3 times the staff
Been planting, respacing and cutting on/off on FC ground for a long time and used to know a lot of the old boys that used to work for them, still know a few that are left.
I've just been lucky enough to buy some ground of the commision for a fraction of its market value because they havenae a clue wot there doing, so i'm over the moon, but as a tax payer heads should be rolling it was an absolute scandal and bloody toture to deal with, my solicitor has never dealt with anything like it before, the left hand never knew wot the right was doing. Considering they have offices full of paper monkeys just to do these things
I have no axe to grind with FC other than its a shame to see the state it's in now and even more so when u speak to the few old timers left and u know how it used to be 20-30 yrs ago. My town was going like a fair with all the forestry minibuses FC/fountains/EFG all used to leave from the paper shop every morning
Some of the restrictions they put on stalking leases and even for some other forestry work are pure job creation just to keep these office monkeys in jobs shuffling needless paper
Have deer number increased so much in the SW scot?
Most of the rangers are shooting more deer than ever but are also covering more ground than ever. If u turned the clock back 20 years they'd be still culling the same ammount but just with 2-3 times the staff
Certainly in Scotland you wouldn't get land cheap - Scottish Public procurement rules are follow to the letter and everything has to be valued by and independent surveyor.
There is hard and undeniable evidence of the increase in deer numbers. On FCE land annual counts are made and cull numbers are based on getting numbers down to target densities. These targets are agreed in co-operation with local deer management groups.
In 2005 the Deer Commission for Scotland/ Mammal Tracing Partnership estimated the Scottish deer population to be around 667,000 (350,000 Red, 300,000 Roe, 9,000 Sika and 8,000 Fallow)
In 2011 Scottish Natural Heritage estimated the Scottish deer population to be around 777,000 (360,000-400,000 Red, 200,000-350,000 Roe, 25,000 Sika, and 2,000 Fallow).
Cull numbers are not static but have increased by about 1000/yr in recent years. 30,000 deer were cull on FC land in Scotland last year - about half of that by there own rangers. OK few people are doing more work, but this is the same in every life.
So, deer numbers are increasing by 20,000 a year and culls by about a 1000.
Culls are likely to increase further is the proposals in the Scottish Land Reform Bill are carried trhtough
Take 5 minutes to have a browse through this - http://scotland.forestry.gov.uk/ima...ement-on-scotlands-national-forest-estate.pdf
There is hard and undeniable evidence of the increase in deer numbers. On FCE land annual counts are made and cull numbers are based on getting numbers down to target densities. These targets are agreed in co-operation with local deer management groups.
In 2005 the Deer Commission for Scotland/ Mammal Tracing Partnership estimated the Scottish deer population to be around 667,000 (350,000 Red, 300,000 Roe, 9,000 Sika and 8,000 Fallow)
In 2011 Scottish Natural Heritage estimated the Scottish deer population to be around 777,000 (360,000-400,000 Red, 200,000-350,000 Roe, 25,000 Sika, and 2,000 Fallow).
Cull numbers are not static but have increased by about 1000/yr in recent years. 30,000 deer were cull on FC land in Scotland last year - about half of that by there own rangers. OK few people are doing more work, but this is the same in every life.
So, deer numbers are increasing by 20,000 a year and culls by about a 1000.
Culls are likely to increase further is the proposals in the Scottish Land Reform Bill are carried trhtough
Take 5 minutes to have a browse through this - http://scotland.forestry.gov.uk/ima...ement-on-scotlands-national-forest-estate.pdf
Last edited:
Similar threads
- Locked
