So now that we have completely left the EU...

[Heym SR20]

...please can somebody tell me one positive thing that we can now do which we couldn't do before

And what is absolutely clear to me is that we always did have soverignty and control over immigration etc and ability to trade internationally.

If you look at work permit requirements for every different EU country they are all very different. I have spent the last three days going over the collaberation agreement and implications it has on business, and in particular on professional services which I I know that many SD members are involved in. Each EU country has its own legislation.

I appreciate that most in the UK don't have any direct interaction with the EU, save going on holidays.

But a very large part of our trade with the EU is the Service sector and we are right royally ****ed. Yes we can travel to meet other and to talk about business under our VISA free travel. But you can't actually do any work, nor be paid directly for what you do. Yes you can set up a compnay in the EU and be a director of it, but you cannot be rewarded for being a director other than via dividends. You can go and be a director and manager, but you can't do any work - so that's fine for Jacob Rees-Mogg and all his chums who sit on boards, but heaven forbid you might want to send some of your experienced staff (at least a degree plus six years experience) to go across and actually do some work - well they will need work permits. And if any want come over here cost of work permits is prohibitative.

In particular the Financial Services Sector. This relies on International Business and is a very significant engine to the economy. It is a closely regulated sector and there is now an "Equivalence Regime" whereby EU can choose which functions of FCA regulations are Equivalent to EU regulations - so far very very little has been agreed.

Boris and the rest of the Cock Wombles will get around to sorting out Equivalence sometime in 2021.

Simple solution is that clients and business won't wait - it will simply move overseas.

Will this hurt the Rural sector - of course it will - where does a lot of the money come into shooting from - city money - an it always has supported Rural economies. That money is going elsewhere.

And if ever you or members of your family fancy spending a bit of time travelling through Europe and picking up a bit of casual work - well forget it unless you are extremely well qualified and can get a high paid job that justifies the time and expense of getting a work permit. And if you should happen to fall in love and want to marry and bring you new partner back to the UK, or you want to stay there - well get use to just 90 days visiting in every 180 cos that's all you will get.

And you can absolutely forget anybody in the artistic world - fancy a French singer doing a gig in your local pub, or the Smelly Stalkers on tour in the Czech Republic - nae chance - you are not allowed to provide services direct to the public. You can go do it for free though.

We have been sold an absolute pack of lies and gullible British public have swallowed it. Businesses and capital are fully mobile and will move. This will badly effect UK Plc, the economy will suffer, the Treasury will suffer, public services and infrastructure will suffer. And we will absolutely be beholden to overseas money at userous rates to bail us out.

The only positive I suppose is that the British Government will have no where to hide and will be fully exposed to its complete and utter incompetence - a bit like the early 1970's when we were the poor man in Europe.

So I am totally serious in my opening question. How does Brexit have any positive impact on our ability to interact with our neighbours in the EU.

They say the BREXIT debate is over - I reckon its only just beggining.

 

[Blackdown_Ranger]

Well said that man. We’ve gifted an opportunity for Germany to take the title of financial capital of Europe and Putin is rubbing his hands with glee now phase 1 of his plan to undermine European unity is complete!

 

[Kalahari]

We are where we are! Can't we just go forward and possibly try and glue the two sides together again.

David.

 

[Kalahari]

Well said that man. We’ve gifted an opportunity for Germany to take the title of financial capital of Europe and Putin is rubbing his hands with glee now phase 1 of his plan to undermine European unity is complete!

Putin and Mutti Merkel had already seiously undermined European unity by agreeing an illegal (under EU rules) gas supply deal.

David.

 

[Apthorpe]

Well said that man. We’ve gifted an opportunity for Germany to take the title of financial capital of Europe and Putin is rubbing his hands with glee now phase 1 of his plan to undermine European unity is complete!

This is thankfully a laughably improbable suggestion. The German financial sector is a laughing stock and national embarrassment to them. They have a provincial financial capital which is physically incapable of accommodating the financial capital or Europe, having neither the space, the technical infrastructure, nor the labour force to do this. The absurd fantasies of remaining that 800,000 financial services professionals were going to move to Europe to make any such shift possible have been proven to be complete and utter nonsense. The financial capital is staying here, for very good reasons.

It has also proved to be a delusional fantasy that Putin had anything to do with Brexit too. Please come back to planet Earth.

 

[Rasputin]

There will be next to zero impact on services when the dust settles. The French and German asset managers and service industries rely so much on London that it’s just going be status quo yes there might be a few hoops to jump through but none of my contacts in the city who trade with the EU are worried. Suspect it’s a storm in a teacup.

As for work permits well that’s no different to Switzerland and even when my father moved to France 40 years ago was just the same. It’s also no different to moving overseas outside the EU. So long as we have a good relationship with the us markets our FS will be fine.

 

[Freeforester]

Re the Financial Capital, I think you'll find that will be determined by the location of the financial capital, and it ain't going to be Teutonic nor Gallic (shrug!)

 

[jb1]

Duty Free is coming back

 

[Rasputin]

Well said that man. We’ve gifted an opportunity for Germany to take the title of financial capital of Europe and Putin is rubbing his hands with glee now phase 1 of his plan to undermine European unity is complete!

Heard it all for the last few years. As a former recruiter in the space who covered all the derivative markets I can tell you it’s impossible for the relocations to occur on the mass scale. Not least because the social costs of employment in Froglandia and Germany are so high. Yes there might be a few who move for personal reasons but the exodus which has been mooted for past few years just hasn’t happened and will not.

 

[Frank Homes]

And what is absolutely clear to me is that we always did have soverignty and control over immigration etc and ability to trade internationally.

If you look at work permit requirements for every different EU country they are all very different. I have spent the last three days going over the collaberation agreement and implications it has on business, and in particular on professional services which I I know that many SD members are involved in. Each EU country has its own legislation.

I appreciate that most in the UK don't have any direct interaction with the EU, save going on holidays.

But a very large part of our trade with the EU is the Service sector and we are right royally ****ed. Yes we can travel to meet other and to talk about business under our VISA free travel. But you can't actually do any work, nor be paid directly for what you do. Yes you can set up a compnay in the EU and be a director of it, but you cannot be rewarded for being a director other than via dividends. You can go and be a director and manager, but you can't do any work - so that's fine for Jacob Rees-Mogg and all his chums who sit on boards, but heaven forbid you might want to send some of your experienced staff (at least a degree plus six years experience) to go across and actually do some work - well they will need work permits. And if any want come over here cost of work permits is prohibitative.

In particular the Financial Services Sector. This relies on International Business and is a very significant engine to the economy. It is a closely regulated sector and there is now an "Equivalence Regime" whereby EU can choose which functions of FCA regulations are Equivalent to EU regulations - so far very very little has been agreed.

Boris and the rest of the Cock Wombles will get around to sorting out Equivalence sometime in 2021.

Simple solution is that clients and business won't wait - it will simply move overseas.

Will this hurt the Rural sector - of course it will - where does a lot of the money come into shooting from - city money - an it always has supported Rural economies. That money is going elsewhere.

And if ever you or members of your family fancy spending a bit of time travelling through Europe and picking up a bit of casual work - well forget it unless you are extremely well qualified and can get a high paid job that justifies the time and expense of getting a work permit. And if you should happen to fall in love and want to marry and bring you new partner back to the UK, or you want to stay there - well get use to just 90 days visiting in every 180 cos that's all you will get.

And you can absolutely forget anybody in the artistic world - fancy a French singer doing a gig in your local pub, or the Smelly Stalkers on tour in the Czech Republic - nae chance - you are not allowed to provide services direct to the public. You can go do it for free though.

We have been sold an absolute pack of lies and gullible British public have swallowed it. Businesses and capital are fully mobile and will move. This will badly effect UK Plc, the economy will suffer, the Treasury will suffer, public services and infrastructure will suffer. And we will absolutely be beholden to overseas money at userous rates to bail us out.

The only positive I suppose is that the British Government will have no where to hide and will be fully exposed to its complete and utter incompetence - a bit like the early 1970's when we were the poor man in Europe.

So I am totally serious in my opening question. How does Brexit have any positive impact on our ability to interact with our neighbours in the EU.

They say the BREXIT debate is over - I reckon its only just beggining.

This smacks of a Remainer loser who doesn't realise the game's over.

 

[Heym SR20]

Heard it all for the last few years. As a former recruiter in the space who covered all the derivative markets I can tell you it’s impossible for the relocations to occur on the mass scale. Not least because the social costs of employment in Froglandia and Germany are so high. Yes there might be a few who move for personal reasons but the exodus which has been mooted for past few years just hasn’t happened and will not.

They are all going to Amsterdam - several of the banks have already relocated their European operations to Amsterdam, staffed by Europeans. Amsterdam has very good transport connections to the rest of Europe, it’s been working throughout the Pandemic as staff can afford to live within walking / cycling distance of their offices.

We have an office next door to the new European Medicine Authority and surrounded by all the banks. You can easily and cheaply travel to most of the major centres on the continent - Berlin, Frankfurt, Munich, Paris are all easy day trips via the highspeed train.

US banks have taken lots of space in Frankfurt, or moving operations back to New York or down to the Gulf.

London has serious shortcomings in the Pandemic. The tubes are not safe and staff. Cycling is dangerous. Cross Rail might one day work if they ever find the right fuses for the signalling system. And lots of staff working from home / on Furlough won’t be brought back. And it is totally unaffordable to live. All your junior staff - new graduates etc have to live a long way out. Gone are the days when they lived close - all that property is now in the hands of Russian, Arab and Chinese billionaires using it as a safe haven for cash. And most of it remains empty.

Yes London will remain a financial centre for British based trade, but I wouldn’t want to be invested in London commercial property at the moment.

 

[Heym SR20]

This smacks of a Remainer loser who doesn't realise the game's over.

Sadly its not a game, and its not a game for all those who will be badly affected by it.

I would expect Brexit supporters to be providing lots of positive comments- all they do is shout insults. Why?

 

[enfieldspares]

And what is absolutely clear to me is that we always did have sovereignty and control over immigration etc and ability to trade internationally.

No. We didn't have control over immigration. We had control over immigration other than by EU citizens and their non-EU citizen family members.

All others required, or didn't require...and it was the UK Parliament that decided who did and who didn't...a visa or not. EU citizens required simply no more than to produce their passport or their state's national identity card and had to be admitted save ONLY unless they were "a serious threat to national safety and security".

What's worse is that gave EU Citizens in regard to THEIR non-EU family members' and immigration to the UK greater rights of entry than to British citizens and their non-EU family members.

Non-EU family members accompanying or joining an EU citizen to enter the UK was required to provide ONLY three documents. Their passport, the EU citizen's passport (or national identity card) and proof of their relationship to that EU citizen. Such as a marriage licence or birth certificate. Their admission could ONLY be refused on two grounds: that the relationship didn't exist and was fake or that they were a "serious" threat to national safety or security. And there could be no charge for that admission.

Non-EU family members accompanying or joining an British citizen to enter the UK* was required to provide not only their passport, the EU citizen's passport (or national identity card) and proof of their relationship to that EU citizen but also proof of accommodation, proof of sufficient funds, proof of health insurance, a valid return ticket out of the UK.

And even if all those were produced could be refused entry for no good reason but for the "whim"...failing the notorious and intrusive one to two to three hour "family life" quiz by UK Border Agency goons....and additionally had to pay for that admission from about £100 for a short visit visa to over £1000 (currentky £1523) for a spouse visa. Which money if the entry or visa was refused was not refunded.

* Except where that British citizen had exercised in the EU a right under EU Directive 2004/38 and the so named "Surinder Singh Rules"...EU immigration law over ruled UK immigration law and therefore applied.

No. We didn't have control over immigration. Now we do from 31 December 2020.

Everybody gets the same shitty deal but at least with regard to our family members British citizens are no longer, as far as immigration law is concerned, second rank citizens in their own country of birth. And I know this because I've been there seen it and done it both the UK immigration law route and the EU "Surinder Singh Rules" EU Directive 2004/38 route.

 

[Rasputin]

They are all going to Amsterdam - several of the banks have already relocated their European operations to Amsterdam, staffed by Europeans. Amsterdam has very good transport connections to the rest of Europe, it’s been working throughout the Pandemic as staff can afford to live within walking / cycling distance of their offices.

We have an office next door to the new European Medicine Authority and surrounded by all the banks. You can easily and cheaply travel to most of the major centres on the continent - Berlin, Frankfurt, Munich, Paris are all easy day trips via the highspeed train.

US banks have taken lots of space in Frankfurt, or moving operations back to New York or down to the Gulf.

London has serious shortcomings in the Pandemic. The tubes are not safe and staff. Cycling is dangerous. Cross Rail might one day work if they ever find the right fuses for the signalling system. And lots of staff working from home / on Furlough won’t be brought back. And it is totally unaffordable to live. All your junior staff - new graduates etc have to live a long way out. Gone are the days when they lived close - all that property is now in the hands of Russian, Arab and Chinese billionaires using it as a safe haven for cash. And most of it remains empty.

Yes London will remain a financial centre for British based trade, but I wouldn’t want to be invested in London commercial property at the moment.

They are not going to Amsterdam en made. As above maybe a few go it’s a prop trading hub but for the rank and file it’s a non entity. Sure Netherlands has an attractive tax break for two years but after that it’s full on normal. As for the US banks they have always had a presence overseas but it will never replace London and unless they want to hire locally they will simply not be able to get the staff. If you think rent prices for young staff in major cities are cheaper than London you’re totally delusional.

Now we are free of the EU shackles I am quite certain we will move even closer to usa regulators and just carry on as per normal.



Agree with you on London commercial real estate my pal was a senior surveyor of ten years and in summer they potted 150 staff at the firm and said commercial is dead. However all my friends in banking currently working from home and likely will carry on regardless. So that’s a huge cost offsetting for firms right there.

 

[243varmint]

"The only positive I suppose is that the British Government will have no where to hide and will be fully exposed to its complete and utter incompetence - a bit like the early 1970's when we were the poor man in Europe."

I think this sums it up. Get the people who have been voted in to actually run the country properly. Not hiding behind 'consultants' who advise them.

If the buck stops with your dept. you're in charge of.. Tough s**t. You're in charge you take the rap
I think it's called accountability....

 

[User00025]

Sadly its not a game, and its not a game for all those who will be badly affected by it.

I would expect Brexit supporters to be providing lots of positive comments- all they do is shout insults. Why?

No need for insults, this isn't, just get real man it's over, you lost, we may lose, but it's over.

 

[enfieldspares]

Finance...or rather jobs in finance for "Brits"....won't go to France for the same reason that Serena Williams left. France taxes all residents at French tax rates (there's no "non-dom" nonsense there) and "Brits" resident in France working for a finance house then re-located to France wouldn't benefit from the Anglo-French Tax Treaty of 2009 to be allowed to be taxed by the UK and not by France. If finance houses do re-locate to France it will be without the majority of their current British staff.

So where might it go? Follow the money...the smart money which like or loathe him is Rees-Mogg and his coterie...it'll go to Dublin. Because they speak English and "Brits" under the terms of the Anglo-Irish Treaty of 1922 (which out trumps any EU immigration law) have unfettered rights to live and work in Eire.

 

[Fair Hill]

Mackeral, ye can learn all the different ways to cook mackeral, and maybe invent some new ways to make the best use of mackeral.

Living the dream chaps, living the dream.

 

[enfieldspares]

Mackerel! How did you know? Wow! I'm currently researching making mackerel skin facemasks and PPE for anti-covid protection. 'Cos an added feature is as long as you can still smell 'em you'll also know you've not yet got it. Matt (Hancock) says he's a contract ready for me of £200M once I've sorted out how to stop the bastards wriggling as they go through the sewing machine to stitch 'em together.

 

[ChrisJB]

I think that’s a little ‘behind the curve’ much as I would distance like to distance myself from the verbiage. Am sure our UK based support desk has just been closed down and relocated to Spain is coincidental but maybe less so on the way.