***SOLD** Dumfries / Galloway - Cull - Oct 08

[Grantoliver]

Roo.

You may consider asking for PM's from peolpe who would be interested in such offers and sending a message to them rather than making a general offering. This would lead to those who are intersted in such things still having them made available, but not opening the proposition up to debate.

 

[viking]

I personally don't see the problem with debating, afterall that is what open
forums are about. And if TheHuntingAgency doesn't post anymore then that
is his decision and choice, which he is entitled to. However to not expect debate
when you post on an open forum is slightly naive.

 

[snowstorm]

This is privately owned forum, and if the owners set policy for what is acceptable advertising then you can't justify criticising the advertisers if you don't agree with site policy.

Nothing wrong with debate, but he didn't put the issue up for debate - it was an advert for a service. If you want a debate then start it as another thread. Not that he got a debate in response - he got personal jibes and criticisms of the products and services being offered on the basis that people didn't like them.

As for the people who took him up on the offer and the implied criticism of them - you can't tell other stalkers what they should think is right and wrong and how to go about their business.

Roo, the poor bloke, if he did think there was a vendetta against him then I'm not surprised - he got this same thing about two months ago for advertising a cull stalk in Africa - I dont know what he's done to deserve this reaction. I don't see any of this about the numerous other stalking agencies advertised in the other section of the site.

There wouldn't be half the opportunities to shoot here if it weren't for him.

This is damaging the bloke's business.

 

[sikamalc]

Ok my turn.

The Hunting Agency is offering a service, and it seems to me a very fine one. He was also offering a great deal of stalking at a market price. After nearly 30 years in this business I can tell you that the going rate is about £150 a day for Red Hind Stalking on most Scottish estates. The fact that a job needed to be done quickly has nothing to do with anyone on this site, we are not in control of the full facts So I suggest that before anyone else starts sounding off, they take a step back first before their halo slips over their head.

I managed 100 square miles for an estate 4 years back taking 180 head over 4 months with 7 stalkers, although all of this was in season, it was bloody hard work, walking hills up to 3000ft, but we got the job done.

I dare say many that have complained on here have never had to undertake such deer management work, but sometimes it has to be done , providing it is done ethically and professionaly it is a job and you get on and do it. Perhaps there is a hint of jelousy in here somewheres, I have seen it many times in Stalking. No one asked anyone on here to cough up and go, but the offer was made, and thats good enough for me

THANK YOU Roo for giving the opportunity to our members, I sincerely hope that the one or two misguided individuals WIND THEIR NECKS IN, as I am getting tired of the way people apply their thoughts without being polite.

Sikamalc

 

[viking]

I dare say many that have complained on here have never had to undertake such deer management work, but sometimes it has to be done , providing it is done ethically and professionaly it is a job and you get on and do it.

My point exactly, but I've never paid for going to work.

 

[Bonnie]

As a very new member to this site and this being my first post/reply and it could be my last if i get a response like Roo has got. there is a saying never shoot the messager Roo posted and opportunity for some stalkers to cull 150 does calfs whatever at £200 per over 2-3days i have to say i pm Roo for more details but it seems i was unlucky, to me this seems a fair price the reason i say this is because over the past 18mths i have spent nearly £1200 to get my DMQ2 and shot 5 deer this = £240 per deer this dosn't take into account diesel, lose of earnings, BB, and ferry tickets and before anyone asks yes i have been to the isle of arran on hind week and on previous post i think it was qouted £175 per week per stalker and last year 161 deer shot at cost of £21 per hind and £43 per stag, over the week i was there 14 stalkers 2 hinds shot 14 x £175= £2450 divided by the 2 hinds = £1225 per hind please don,t think i'am slagging of the isle of arran i must admit i had a very good time and will be going back. the point Iam trying to get across is as a stalker who has very little stalking, this was a good opportunity and in my mind a fair price compaired to what i have paid in the past, Roo if you read this please Pm with any other offers you have,
"one man's work is another man's pleasure"

 

[ReneZ]

Bonnie, nothing like yours above putting the cost aspect for new stalkers without land authorisations into perspective.
The matter remains that an offer was made and quite a few of us would have been happy to try to participate to gain experience, as it is hard to get it elsewhere. Regretfully some seem to feel the need to address this in a manner I consider disagreeable, but that's me. I would think that people with a hobby/calling that is under such scruterny by the outside, un- or mis-informed, world would be able to show just that little bit more respect for each other.
On many other forums there is a directory where posts can be made without the opportunity to respond, unless thru PM's. Maybe this is something to consider for the moderators.

There is a big amount of great info on this site, from all side of the fence (or great divide), let's make sure everybody feels welcome and valued?
Thanks, Rene.

 

[TheHuntingAgency]

Last Word

Hi all, and thank you all for this thread. I know it got fractious, but I have had so many fantastic PM's as a result that I'm delighted to have posted what I did. Thank you all, and thank you too for the explainations and apologies that I had - no harm done and no offence taken, besides, it's Friday and it's done with, so lets all put a pin in it and move on!

I'm about to post a couple more threads. One is about some more stalking - Wiltshire, Roe Does, November, and the other is a poll. I'd like to think that you'll all take an active part in that one too as I'm wressling with something and it's an ethical question - could do with some help!

Anyway, thanks all, have a great weekend!

Roo
Anarchist and Board Activist!

 

[jingzy]

I have read this thread and I think that there are many that would appreciate the opportunity that Roo had to offer. I also think that there are many stalkers on this site that would look at this as wholesale slaughter. This is, depending on the acreage of the land, not good for deer welfare.
What you are talking about Sikamalk is 180 deer over 4 months, which on a daily basis is only 2 a day over a 5 day week, good steady shooting.
Over a period of 3 days with that head of deer, this does come into the realms of work for the estate.

I think this thread may continue for some time

 

[wadashot]

I have done contract work in Galloway forest and it is bloody hard work, that place is one big forest and its a nightmare getting them off the clearfell and restocked areas. The most i had in a 24 hour period was 9 and most of those were night shot

The reds there didn`t heard together in anything like a decent group, with 6 or 7 being the most i saw together, that was rare and that being at night AND that was over 25,000acres

I have my opinions on the offer that Roo was offering but i will keep that to myself, but i will finish by saying that in my case i was lucky enough to get paid to do the job

wadas

 

[snowstorm]

I also think that there are many stalkers on this site that would look at this as wholesale slaughter.

That's an importnat point and it's important to have that debate.

Generally I think many stalkers start from the assumption that the objective of a deer management plan is to maintain a healthy, sustainable population of deer.

In some cases, especailly where there is a cash crop, the objective may well be to rid the whole area of deer, or make a big dent in their numbers. Mass slaughter in this case is unavoidable.

For recreational stalkers, or estates where they sell recreational stalking, the deer population has value as a commercial asset.

Where the asset is standing timber, the deer have a one off value in that people will (and they do) pay money for the pleasure of shooting them, plus the venison has value - it's an asset.

If the landowner did not charge, they are effectively throwing away one assest of value in favour of another. That's bad business.

If you had an acre of land and wanted to build a house on it, but there were 100 car wrecks on the land, you know they have scrap value so you sell them as scrap. If there are no takers you give them away, if there are still no takers you pay someone to remove them.

The market decides if they have value. In this case, what's on offer does have value because someone paid for it.

 

[sikamalc]

Jingzy, yes you are right, but much depends on the terrain when you are undertaking a cull plan, also machinery available, access on to and off the ground, larder location, etc etc.

In this instance with myself it was 44,400 acres, (19 mile drive along the northern edge of the ground to get back to the larder) no internal roads, one larder at the end of the ground, many lochs one 15 miles long, which entailed access by boat to get to parts of the estate, no machinery as such for extraction, so we took 4 quad bikes up there to get the job done, 1 stalker who used to be employed many years ago to show us the ground (although we had visited twice before the ground was purchased), mountains up to and over 3000ft. Lots of dragging and not one beast lost or cut up to bring it off.

If it had been an easier piece of ground we would have done it quicker, but health and safety came first. As Wada's has pointed out culling in a forest is never going to be easy, and he is a very experienced stalker.

Each to his own, but Roo is simply trying to offer help, and for that we should be thankfull.

Cheers

 

[Muddy]

large culls

Over 25 years plus myself and duncan have took part in shoot on sight policies in some blocks of forestry . You might think great but after shooting 8 or 10 out of bunches you suddenly go o **** now i have to get them out . Yes we do have a quad but you still got to gralloch them and get them back to a road for transport to the larder . Then you have to sort them out weigh tagg record some times its hours later you get finished . Some times you have to go back next morning to get them out its bloody hard work i can assure you . Then we have night shooting great you might think i can assure you its not stumbling about in the dark grallocing in the dark marking were they are for extraction in the day light thinking i wish i hadnt shot them in there . Roe aint to bad unless they are down hill and have to come up hill i have shot 14 in one morning stalk duncan another 8 great you might think but believe me its not . I spent 3 months in the winter for 3 years average450 to 500 red and roe sone sika but not many i was a lot younger then i could not do it now to old if i can get my youngest son to post some picks for me you will see its no fun but good luck you will need it i can assure you muddy