StephenToast
Well-Known Member
You and others with your attitude are the reason shooting is finished. It's got nothing to do with death by a thousand cuts.
More like death by arrogance, ignorance and complacency.
Solid lead bullets study
- Thread starter palmer_mike
- Start date
More like death by arrogance, ignorance and complacency.
Leec6.5
Well-Known Member
This i do agree with, times change, we either move along with them or fizzle out!
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
Thank you sir but I beg to differ.
Toxic substances surround us. Lead is way way down on the list.
Rather than being arrogant some of us see the truth behind it.
Ignorance wise, anyone believing lead is bad but copper is good is in fact ignorance. A fragment of copper in the gut ingested whilst eating is more reactive an element than lead and harmful.
Complacency has nothing to do with it, I and others reject being criminalised by this drive to try and appease those that think all types of shooting and hunting are conducted by evil people.
StephenToast
Well-Known Member
You imply that you will wilfully break the law if lead is banned.
You are no different to the people who continued to use lead shot to shoot waterfowl after the lead ban or those who continue to persecute raptors. You and those others have proved that the shooting community cannot be trusted to follow a simple law.
Those people are and will be to blame for the end of shooting.
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
Strong accusations! That makes you better how exactly?
I was taught to assume nothing!
Read about you beloved copper...
No, he's entirely correct. There's maybe 4 people on here 'pro lead free', rightly or wrongly. So how about a look in the mirror at the general consensus from others to gauge it? You and Norfolk deer search only shoot deer. Period.
The rest of us shoot targets, be it gongs or paper. We shoot air rifles, rimfires... All of which can't function currently without lead bullets. You stated you use lead free pellets yet wouldn't give me a reply to what worked. Numerous others also said tin pellets are ****, because they are... It's the divide caused by this that's the end of shooting, because shooters can't stick together. 4 Vs the forum for the best part? Now who's ruining it...
I imagine any outside person looking in who sees things being said around continuing to use even if there is a ban are going to be the ones pushing to get a stricter ban, I.e. if we can't police it ourselves then they will get someone who will.
I've had the email from BASC re the consultation to gather as many thoughts as possible, I hope other orgs have also come out to their members doing the same as arguing with eachother on here isn't going to get anyone outcome that remotely resembles something most can be happy with, but as many people responding to as many orgs as possible just might help fight the corner
I've had the email from BASC re the consultation to gather as many thoughts as possible, I hope other orgs have also come out to their members doing the same as arguing with eachother on here isn't going to get anyone outcome that remotely resembles something most can be happy with, but as many people responding to as many orgs as possible just might help fight the corner
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
The last time the basc backed a ban on lead shot for waterfowl they gave no concern for muzzleloaders by suggesting an exemption for such a tiny minority.
But without engaging in the consultation to your relevant organisation, all your going to do is tell it to us, we are not able to influence at individual level, so I'd say again raise with your relevant shooting org in the hopes that they will take on board the feedback
EDIT: If not done so already, maybe joining and reaching out to the muzzle loader association would be beneficial for you, if I remember correctly I think your inclined to use one, if not apologies for mixing you up with someone else Muzzle Loaders Association of Great Britain
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Leec6.5
Well-Known Member
Yes i do only shoot deer and i do feel a sense of loss for the other shooting disciplines, but nether the less it come down to what the law says, our opinions or views will not matter.
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
Ah, you mean like how communism works.
That explains it now, I never formed the link, stupid me....
Dunwaters
Well-Known Member
The problem is that the shooting community at both national and international level has fought every single proposal to reduce the amount of lead we use, sometimes on fairly shaky grounds. Steel shot works, so do copper centre fire bullets for game.
BASC comes in for a great deal of criticism, they’ve been on the case for over 30 years, so has our NARGC and every other national body in the EU, the problem is that “We“, the users, have refused to accept virtually any restrictions on lead use for over 3 decades of negotiation.
That line of defence/ obduracy hasn’t worked, at least 20 different countries shooting organisations have tried it, its as dead as the dodo, your government policy, driven by REACH and the scientific evidence, is now to remove lead from civilian/leisure shooting activities.
The ban is now policy, that’s a hardline change in attitude. The ban is government backed at both national and EU level.
We’ve argued for 3 decades plus and lost. Its over.
You can gurn on about lead flashing, lead gutters and drain pipes, water pipes, lead soldiers, lead mines and tailings, lead aprons in the NHS and environmental lead, pewter beer mugs, badges and plates, but you’re wasting your breath, those users or sources of contamination aren’t in the cross hairs, we are.
Lets stop fighting a lost cause, rehashing discredited arguments and concentrate on salvaging what we need.
That’s “need”, not “want”, to carry on.
We’ll lose some things, but if we can’t be more realistic we’ll lose a lot more.
The buggers are serious this time, we’ve no friends in court and we can’t afford irrelevant distractions.
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StephenToast
Well-Known Member
Like all of your other posts. You're totally incorrect.
I replied to you about the airgun pellets by the way. You just haven't looked.
StephenToast
Well-Known Member
What do you mean beloved copper? I don't care what non-lead ammunition you use. It's not all copper for rifles you know.
I also never said I or anyone else was better.
If you intend to wilfully break the law then you are contributing to the end of shooting.
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
Are not most lead free bullets copper based then?
StephenToast
Well-Known Member
Most maybe. Definitely not all...
RWS Evolution Green | RWS Ammunition
Excellent stopping power, especially at longer ranges: RWS EVOLUTION GREEN is a lead-free part fragmentation bullet. Lean more here!
Not incorrect whatsoever. Where are 22 subs? What lead free projectile is cheap to run for target and vermin shooters? The answer to that, it doesn't exist. That isn't wrong...
Just seen the pellets, yeh they don't work great let's be fair on this
might as well use a shotgun with the results they give.
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
Oh ok but they use tin, oh dearMost maybe. Definitely not all...
RWS Evolution Green | RWS Ammunition
Excellent stopping power, especially at longer ranges: RWS EVOLUTION GREEN is a lead-free part fragmentation bullet. Lean more here!rws-ammunition.com
. Still, at least they use a nice misleading green box 
Like I said, assume nothing!
Toxic Metal: The Health Dangers of Tin
Most people think about tin as in tin cans or tin foil. Despite this place in our lexicon, research has shown that tin can negatively impact human health.
explore.globalhealing.com
StephenToast
Well-Known Member
Pellets work fine for me. Maybe you should work on your marksmanship?Not incorrect whatsoever. Where are 22 subs? What lead free projectile is cheap to run for target and vermin shooters? The answer to that, it doesn't exist. That isn't wrong...
Just seen the pellets, yeh they don't work great let's be fair on this
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