Speeding and wrong info = FAC Revocation and Seizure
- Thread starter Foxyboy43
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Yes. I couldn't remember the details of my 2 speeding offences they were that long in the past (probably in my chariot). I phoned the FEO and he said not to worry, as long as you declare them. FAC arrived shortly after.
Just did this and it only seems to display current license status - not previous.
Regards,
Gixer
MAH
Well-Known Member
I'd call the FEO and explain the situation.
My experience of 40 years with a FAC is that they are not trying to test the accuracy of your memory, or record keeping. But they'll be concerned if they think you are hiding something.
I had two motoring fines back the the 1970s and a speed awareness thingy approx 2010. After a discussion, that's what I put on the form.
M
Richards8248
Well-Known Member
Mightve c
Mightve changed then but definitely used to pal
Hornet 6
Well-Known Member
Yes you can, I was asked for my best guesses as far as time and offence went (all driving offences and all old, like 20 odd years)
I did my best on the forms, my FEO came round a few days later with a full list off my sins, I had been close, but not that close.
No problems at all, for those interested and old enough to remember 'endorsements' well 63 of them on a current and valid licence.
Neil.
Tf223
Well-Known Member
Believe it or not this is common with taxi driver applications. Some people seem to think if they mention one or two low level things it won’t be checked?!? Quite often leads to a whole host of other offending being picked up - we’ve prosecuted for knowingly or recklessly completing such a disclosure question - on top of refusal, and entry onto the national refusals database.
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Without going through the full process I think you can check here with your NI and licence numbers
Penalty points (endorsements)
You could get penalty points (endorsements) on your driving record if you're convicted of a motoring offence
Well, better they learn on a training exercise than on their first live pursuit!
Hmm, I’m a bit torn on this.
On one hand, I don’t think a few speeding offences (and some unproven other allegations relating to motoring) mean he is a danger to the public.
Leading on, this seems to simply be a case of the police taking an ultra-cautious approach having f***ed up in Plymouth.
However, he does admit he didn’t declare a speeding offence and then had plead guilty to another speeding offence (which though I wouldn’t call really serious, wasn’t minor either).
It is said that it is better to “over” declare than “under” declare and I do have a bit of sympathy with FEOs taking a dim view of an offence not being shown. He said his renewal was 2 year ago, so 2019. That would put his previous renewal in 2014, which is the conviction he admits to having. To declare you have no convictions when you have literally just had one suggests dishonesty or abject carelessness when completing the application. I tend to assume people aren’t dishonest unless otherwise shown, but carelessness still doesn’t look good.
I also don’t really take his point about them pre-judging his latest offence, he had just plead guilty.
If he’d declared the conviction, I’d 100% be on his side that this is an over-reaction (although would understand the FEO telling him to keep his nose clean from now on).
On one hand, I don’t think a few speeding offences (and some unproven other allegations relating to motoring) mean he is a danger to the public.
Leading on, this seems to simply be a case of the police taking an ultra-cautious approach having f***ed up in Plymouth.
However, he does admit he didn’t declare a speeding offence and then had plead guilty to another speeding offence (which though I wouldn’t call really serious, wasn’t minor either).
It is said that it is better to “over” declare than “under” declare and I do have a bit of sympathy with FEOs taking a dim view of an offence not being shown. He said his renewal was 2 year ago, so 2019. That would put his previous renewal in 2014, which is the conviction he admits to having. To declare you have no convictions when you have literally just had one suggests dishonesty or abject carelessness when completing the application. I tend to assume people aren’t dishonest unless otherwise shown, but carelessness still doesn’t look good.
I also don’t really take his point about them pre-judging his latest offence, he had just plead guilty.
If he’d declared the conviction, I’d 100% be on his side that this is an over-reaction (although would understand the FEO telling him to keep his nose clean from now on).
Tf223
Well-Known Member
Depends whether the rehabilitation of offenders act applies to the Firearms Act. In some other areas of licensing there are no such things as spent offences.
Dan Newcombe
Well-Known Member
I’m never sure if you need to put all offences or just those since your last submission - they should have everything f else front he last time surely.
Play it safe and put everything down but seems excessive
Play it safe and put everything down but seems excessive
Foxyboy43
Well-Known Member
Hmmm. I think the points for me in relation to offences impacting on your FAC are:-
- where is the line drawn i.e. who decides - low level admin FEO or Police Officer of (one would hope) Inspector level?
- what (if any) are the guidelines which determine whether revocation and/or surrender of firearms is necessary; and
- if deemed necessary the method of surrender itself, i.e. a simple requirement to bring them to your local FEO through to an Armed Response Unit unannounced coming to/through your door.
If these are not clearly defined there will always be a risk of over-reaction and thus criticism of heavy-handedness. For example is a serial speeder worse than a drunk driver and is a drunk driver any worse than someone with a known lower class drugs habit? There must be many thousands of FAC holders with multiple speeding convictions still in possession of their FAC but one DiC conviction you lose the lot with little chance of getting them back - yet paradoxically you will get your Driving Licence back in due course - often as little as 12 months later. Soooo are you being punished twice?
This latest video has made me think - perhaps a Points System for FAC revocation is the way to go? Potential offenders would know the risks and the Police would have good reason and a solid defence for seizure etc…. IMHO I really do think that something tangible rather than potentially best guess and thus ill-founded decisions is now required. Food for thought in any event.
- where is the line drawn i.e. who decides - low level admin FEO or Police Officer of (one would hope) Inspector level?
- what (if any) are the guidelines which determine whether revocation and/or surrender of firearms is necessary; and
- if deemed necessary the method of surrender itself, i.e. a simple requirement to bring them to your local FEO through to an Armed Response Unit unannounced coming to/through your door.
If these are not clearly defined there will always be a risk of over-reaction and thus criticism of heavy-handedness. For example is a serial speeder worse than a drunk driver and is a drunk driver any worse than someone with a known lower class drugs habit? There must be many thousands of FAC holders with multiple speeding convictions still in possession of their FAC but one DiC conviction you lose the lot with little chance of getting them back - yet paradoxically you will get your Driving Licence back in due course - often as little as 12 months later. Soooo are you being punished twice?
This latest video has made me think - perhaps a Points System for FAC revocation is the way to go? Potential offenders would know the risks and the Police would have good reason and a solid defence for seizure etc…. IMHO I really do think that something tangible rather than potentially best guess and thus ill-founded decisions is now required. Food for thought in any event.
I thought after five years they time expired with dvla, most GPs are unable to check your medical records from birth so why should “minor” motoring convictions of only penalty points held against you for life?
Different if the motoring offence ends up in court, like road rage, drink driving or dangerous driving etc.
The police are risk adverse when it comes to firearm ownership, so take them away and then if it goes to court and a judge decides to return the firearms it’s no longer the chief constable who will be held accountable.Hmmm. I think the points for me in relation to offences impacting on your FAC are:-
- where is the line drawn i.e. who decides - low level admin FEO or Police Officer of (one would hope) Inspector level?
- what (if any) are the guidelines which determine whether revocation and/or surrender of firearms is necessary; and
- if deemed necessary the method of surrender itself, i.e. a simple requirement to bring them to your local FEO through to an Armed Response Unit unannounced coming to/through your door.
If these are not clearly defined there will always be a risk of over-reaction and thus criticism of heavy-handedness. For example is a serial speeder worse than a drunk driver and is a drunk driver any worse than someone with a known lower class drugs habit? There must be many thousands of FAC holders with multiple speeding convictions still in possession of their FAC but one DiC conviction you lose the lot with little chance of getting them back - yet paradoxically you will get your Driving Licence back in due course - often as little as 12 months later. Soooo are you being punished twice?
This latest video has made me think - perhaps a Points System for FAC revocation is the way to go? Potential offenders would know the risks and the Police would have good reason and a solid defence for seizure etc…. IMHO I really do think that something tangible rather than potentially best guess and thus ill-founded decisions is now required. Food for thought in any event.
its not the Polices money they are spending in the process, win or lose they get the result they want.
The Rehabilitation of Offenders Act does NOT (emphatically) apply to Firearms or Shotgun Licensing - the Police may take such things into account but they have a FULL picture of your convictions, whatever they are. This is why we are usually asked if there are any convictions to advise to F. Licensing SINCE your last application.
All our interests are served by observing this rule - only personal interest may be thought to be assisted by NON-declaration.
Don't get me wrong, I think the Police are very much in risk averse mode and acting on C. Conc orders to reduce the number of guns but your average beat copper does not fear guns in his work, so few are those incidents. Knives and drugs are a different matter. I wouldn't ask your FEO if you could smoke weed occasionally and still retain your guns. Too many 'errors' of judgement' are made by those with a habit, like starting it in the first place since its illegal.
All our interests are served by observing this rule - only personal interest may be thought to be assisted by NON-declaration.
Don't get me wrong, I think the Police are very much in risk averse mode and acting on C. Conc orders to reduce the number of guns but your average beat copper does not fear guns in his work, so few are those incidents. Knives and drugs are a different matter. I wouldn't ask your FEO if you could smoke weed occasionally and still retain your guns. Too many 'errors' of judgement' are made by those with a habit, like starting it in the first place since its illegal.
Benelli m2
Well-Known Member
I understand that on the forms it states minor traffic offences parking and fixed penalty notices need not be declared
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