Stalk - kill shot - Head - carcase

[jackfish]

A solid pricing structure is what you need to see before booking stalking then you know exactly what the fees are. You can then decide whether or not it's for you. People's time don't come cheap especially with all the overheads etc but then again I wouldn't have my pants pulled down with someone throwing extra fees in last minute either.

 

[User00025]

Find out how much first from a reputable stalker then decide.
If after all deductions for equipment, insurance, leases etc the Pro doesn't have £150 - £200 per day as income in his pocket, then he is definitely in the wrong business. £40 -£50k a year is not a lot for the risk of being self employed.

 

[Kalahari]

I still think that if the prices were up on the stalker's website in full (usually they aren't) it would save a lot of time all round. The client would know if the prices were acceptable in advance and the pro would not have to waste time answering unneccesary queries. As a by product we would also have fewer posts about tyre kickers!

David.

 

[8x57]

yes that’s what I thought, I don’t take money when I take them out so don’t think there’s an issue, they have there own insurance too. It was just the home loads as there’s no quality control and insurance company’s in there very nature would look at anything to get out of paying.

Does the insurance policy specifically exclude the use of home loaded or reloaded ammunition? If not then I would suggest that surely you are covered by the policy.
As far as I am aware the policies offered to shooters by shooting organisations other than the CPSA with regard to clay target shooting do not usually exclude the use of reloaded (home loaded) ammunition by the individual.

Perhaps you are over thinking this and have in mind instances when only factory ammo is allowed such as when taking shooting tests with the DMC or D.I.
Obviously any organisation or professional stalker selling stalking can set their own policy regarding the use of reloaded ammunition.

 

[sikamalc]

Any beast shot with me is the clients property, heads that is not carcase. The only extras you will normally be charged for by any guide or outfitter is for medal bucks, and as long as the price is up front there should be no issue. Having said that in 40 years of stalking I have only misjudged twice, both times on CWD in very poor light conditions.

Pine Marten will tell you about that one but I didn't charge for it as it was my mistake. Not easy on CWD if the light is almost gone!

I personally don't charge for anyone using the larder, and most times we skin and butcher up a clients deer for them prior to their taking it away if they are unfamiliar with how to do it, never have charged for it. Most if not all get one of our good breakfasts in with the mornings stalk for free.

As has been said before look around ask questions, get the prices in writing via email, and then decide.

Good luck.

 

[Tis1979]

Does the insurance policy specifically exclude the use of home loaded or reloaded ammunition? If not then I would suggest that surely you are covered by the policy.
As far as I am aware the policies offered to shooters by shooting organisations other than the CPSA with regard to clay target shooting do not usually exclude the use of reloaded (home loaded) ammunition by the individual.

Perhaps you are over thinking this and have in mind instances when only factory ammo is allowed such as when taking shooting tests with the DMC or D.I.
Obviously any organisation or professional stalker selling stalking can set their own policy regarding the use of reloaded ammunition.

I've not read the small print but as you say if it doesn't exclude it, it should be fine but I was asking if someone was using someone else's homelands.

 

[paul o']

Could jump on shot fee's but thats been done to death a fix a price outing is a thing of the past even I now understand that . So I just walk away from them ! well for some it is , so before you leave home have it in your mind if you pull the trigger your fixed price of X to walk has just gone up and not included in the walk/sitting up a tree so its now x+y = ? now thats the price your be paying thats if there are deer to be shot lol this now becomes the outing fee :idea: , if the price per pound is higher than the dealer say thanks no thanks and pop in there on your way home and a pre arranged deal is again is the best way to do it and it will be vac packed chilled in a box ,saves all the problems of blood on the back seats. Malc is almost out of the norm and gives you a massive meal that needs to be slept off

We use Higos ins in Dorset as extra cover for stalking with none fac holder . But the Q' on home loading did't come up best we ask I use SACS for my own ins as back up .

 

[hogey]

As Bogtrotter replied I don't see an issue. I am commercially insured for all my clients, and guides that work with me. My truck is also insured for business. As I have mentioned before if you are paying to be taken out stalking, its the guide/outfitter that needs to be insured NOT YOU. It is commercial stalking and your insurance will not cover it as such.

Have heard you talk about insurance before and beg to differ on your opinion about who should provide the insurance.
I have spoken to BASC about this and they claim the insurance they provide for members covers the member for paid stalking.
I agree that commercial stalking is what you do as it is your business but if I stalk with you that does not make me a commercial stalker.
I am not saying that your insurance does not cover your clients but if insured through BASC that insurance is fully valid for paid stalking.

 

[Heym SR20]

I have seen a contract from a paid stalking estate. Frankly the contract was very aggressive and treated me and client who I was wanting to take stalking as complete idiots.

Must pass a shooting test before being allowed to go stalking.

Must stay within 5 metres of stalker at all times etc etc.

A proper estate invites the guest to check his zero as it may wander during travel. No it won’t but a good stalker can assess his client. If the stalker is at all worried then its Let me take the rifle sir on such a steep walk.

A good stalker should be able be to get the guest well within range so accuracy is an irrelevance.

And if the guest is a right tit, then swirling winds etc mean they never get a shot!!!

faced with such a contract, I have chosen to spend my money elsewhere.

 

[sikamalc]

Have heard you talk about insurance before and beg to differ on your opinion about who should provide the insurance.
I have spoken to BASC about this and they claim the insurance they provide for members covers the member for paid stalking.
I agree that commercial stalking is what you do as it is your business but if I stalk with you that does not make me a commercial stalker.
I am not saying that your insurance does not cover your clients but if insured through BASC that insurance is fully valid for paid stalking.

I think you will find that it only covers up to a limited turn over, which when I looked some years back was not a great deal, and certainly not enough to run a business on.

If you are paying to be taken out it is commercial stalking, as soon as the client enters my vehicle it is being used for business, therefore I would only use a company that specialises in insurance that not only covers my clients, but also all those that guide and work for me. I doubt your BASC insurance covers you for that. I use Clivertons insurance and this costs me about £500 a year.

 

[vizslamad]

+1 and a good one won’t even charge you for the meat, let’s face it if it’s roe or munty it’s not a lot anyway.

 

[bogtrotter]

+1 and a good one won’t even charge you for the meat, let’s face it if it’s roe or munty it’s not a lot anyway.

Really ! i do give the odd one away but at between £30 and £40 a Roe if I gave them away on a regular basis I would be giving away several.thousand pounds a year contrary to popular believe we don't make enough to do that.

This stalking business is not the.license to print money that some think it is

 

[victormeldrew]

On a slightly different, but related, topic to the OP, what is the trend in prices for stag/hind stalking in Scotland for this season?

The fees for hinds have increased by 70% to 100% over last year on certain estates.
The recently introduced Sporting Rates were given as one reason for the increase.

Is this level of increase typical for the 2018-19 season?

Please note this is not a moan against the estates, I am just trying to get an idea as to the pricing trend.

victor

 

[bogtrotter]

Also had a bad winter with a high mortality rate many places having to reduce their cull by up to 25%.

 

[stubear]

I know some people do seem to have this view that guided stalking should be "affordable" and in my view it is - If you do even some simple sums you'll see how quickly the costs mount up on an average month.

If you've got a few leases you might be paying £15k a year (making it up) for all of those - Thats £1250 a month just so you have somewhere to run your business from to start with! Sure, some people might pay more and some might pay less but its pretty unlikely you're going to be paying nothing for all of your ground.

Add on vehicle lease, insurance and fuel and you're probably hitting another £4-500 a month, commercial insurance at £50 a month, accountant is about £1200 a year so call that a ton per month, 15-20 rounds of ammo plus any other adhoc maintenance of seats, larder, facilities, replacing/repairing clothing etc and, straight lined, that probably averages out at £2-300 a month...

That little lot adds up to £2080 in unavoidable monthly costs just for you (thats basically £25k a year by the way..), I have no doubt I'm missing a whole load of other things off and then theres the other things mentioned like additional guides you might ask along to help you and so on.

And dont forget you're actually trying to make a living and pay mortgage, bills and save for retirement with this business as well. Lets be honest any of us running a business like that would want to be billing at least £70k per year with a cost profile like that, especially living in the south with higher house prices. And then if you have kids to look after as well...

Work that out on the basis of 260 working days per year, less 20 for holidays means you need to be making around £300 a day the other 240 days. Now that sounds easy but you might not get bookings on every working day (stalking on a Tuesday or Wednesday anyone?), or you might only get 1 person in who doesnt get a shot and you only take home £170, so now you need to make an extra £130 another day to make up for it.

In light of all of that I think £85 an outing plus a kill fee is pretty reasonable TBH, and gamedealer rates on the venison is more than fair. Trophy fees are fair as well if you have said to your guide you're looking for something a bit special, and as Malc said if you have made sure you know the fees up front then you're not going to get a surprise after you pull the trigger.

As others have said - Find out the costs up front and make a decision on whether you yourself are happy to pay them.

 

[sikamalc]

Prices in Scotland are rising quickly, for various reasons, mostly covered by Bogtrotters post. There is also the fact that many areas have been over culled in my opinion, with SNH and various organisations adding to the issue. Fencing off large tracts of land is also a big problem and in some areas if its got four legs and breaths it gets shot.

This past winter is just another problem and many estates if they are lucky just about break even. Many if not the vast majority are subsidised by their owners and employ people in areas where there is hardly any employment to speak of.

Prices are going up and they will not be coming down that I can see.

 

[Malxwal]

Not so easy to get days on hinds on some estates, too much pressure to meet cull targets to take guests out.

 

[Erik Hamburger]

Commercial operators will charge what the market will carry. Whether that is good value or not is your choice.
Money saving tips: Focus on Doe culling rather than Bucks/Stags and antlers; Bring your own packed breakfast/lunch, Sleep on a campsite and not in a Hotel; Find your own patch of land and all your stalking and shooting will be free!