shakey jake
Well-Known Member
Id ban intensive chicken farming, no body needs cheap salmonella filled meat.
Slow grown chickens at £25 a bird then rabbits would be worth shooting
Stalking Show - Head Shooting discussion
- Thread starter Adam f
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Slow grown chickens at £25 a bird then rabbits would be worth shooting
Norfolk Deer Search
Well-Known Member
You’re just hilarious. I think you need to get some facts right first especially where the Salmonella is concerned.
shakey jake
Well-Known Member
Why cant we eat chicken medium rare then?You’re just hilarious. I think you need to get some facts right first especially where the Salmonella is concerned.
I think there are two significant flaws with equating head-shooting dear with head-shooting rabbits.
- The first is that increased recoil makes precise shooting more challenging. Rabbit rifles are therefore considerably easier to shoot accurately that deer rifles. This advantage is also reinforced by increased practice, due to the higher number of shots taken when hunting, and to the greater ease and far lower cost of plinking.
- The second is that the small size of the target means a pulled shot is more likely to produce a complete miss.
I'm in no way saying that a humane kill is any less important when shooting rabbits vs. shooting deer, only that the likelihood of a good headshot and the consequences of an imperfect one are not equal.
My view is that head shots can be a good choice, but the requirement for a humane kill remains non-negotiable. Consequently, to take any shot for "bragging rights" is simply disgusting.
- The first is that increased recoil makes precise shooting more challenging. Rabbit rifles are therefore considerably easier to shoot accurately that deer rifles. This advantage is also reinforced by increased practice, due to the higher number of shots taken when hunting, and to the greater ease and far lower cost of plinking.
- The second is that the small size of the target means a pulled shot is more likely to produce a complete miss.
I'm in no way saying that a humane kill is any less important when shooting rabbits vs. shooting deer, only that the likelihood of a good headshot and the consequences of an imperfect one are not equal.
My view is that head shots can be a good choice, but the requirement for a humane kill remains non-negotiable. Consequently, to take any shot for "bragging rights" is simply disgusting.
I disagree with that first bit - my 22 is far more difficult to shoot, especially off sticks because of the lack of weight, than either of my deer rifles. If you can head shoot a rabbit, you can head shoot a deer. An inch at 100 yards is an inch at 100 regardless what rifle it comes out of. Thats more than precise enough providing you do your bit. Thats the issue we will face when lead ban comes in. I enjoy ringing steel out to 600+ yards. Its trigger time, its practising. I won't be doing that at £1.50 a bullet!
I've never had a head shot deer get away from me. Not to say it can't happen but I've never had it. I have lost chest shot deer. The shots have been good, the deer has been mobile enough to get in to the sitka. If everything else is right and the headshot is on, that's what I'm gonna take. If it ain't right, hilar shot
HonestJohn
Well-Known Member
You don’t ‘think’ you’ve had a head shot deer get away from you. I know they run like nothing happened, seen it several times when out with people, and once the shooter regains sight picture, they just see it bounding off like it’s all good. I said “put it on the shoulder!!!”. Invite = not happening again
Same can happen with chest shot, yes, but they leave more signs of having been shot for tracking - IMHO
No, I say that because I've not missed a head shot yet so I can say that with confidenceYou don’t ‘think’ you’ve had a head shot deer get away from you. I know they run like nothing happened, seen it several times when out with people, and once the shooter regains sight picture, they just see it bounding off like it’s all good. I said “put it on the shoulder!!!”. Invite = not happening again
Same can happen with chest shot, yes, but they leave more signs of having been shot for tracking - IMHO
I'll also caveat that with recoil management. I like spotting impacts so I tend to set my kit up so I can watch...If i do miss, which let's be real, does happen, it's always a follow up with the dog regardless.
Head shots on deer are very effective and humane. This was made very clear during the presentation at the Stalking Show.
They only become a problem when taken by people who haven't the skill and the confidence to do it.
In which case it's the shooter, not the shot placement, that's unethical.
Don't condemn all head shooters, just because some people make the unethical decision to take shots that are beyond their capabilities. Plenty of chest shots get messed up too, probably by the same people.
Anyone who has taken the time and effort to develop their skill to be able to consistently and effectively head shoot deer deserves to be rewarded by getting much better prices for carcasses.
They only become a problem when taken by people who haven't the skill and the confidence to do it.
In which case it's the shooter, not the shot placement, that's unethical.
Don't condemn all head shooters, just because some people make the unethical decision to take shots that are beyond their capabilities. Plenty of chest shots get messed up too, probably by the same people.
Anyone who has taken the time and effort to develop their skill to be able to consistently and effectively head shoot deer deserves to be rewarded by getting much better prices for carcasses.
HonestJohn
Well-Known Member
Yes but they’ve done a course ! The instant expert …..
Bo Diddley
Well-Known Member
And the chickens would be worth eating
.I cleared a dozen or so cockerels up for a smallholder a couple of years ago, best tasting chicken I've had for a long while, not much meat on 'em, but flippin' tasty.
Pressure from Game Dealers who will ONLY take non-chest shot beasts? They are on the increase as the demand for someone - indeed anyone - to take deer off a stalker's hands is such they can enforce with ease such a Policy.
K
That is the game dealer's perogative. He's running a business, not a disposal service.
If I was a game dealer I wouldn't want chest shot deer either.
Norfolk Deer Search
Well-Known Member
Farmed venison and wild venison are two very different products in the marketplace, as I'm sure you well know.
Much needed, even if all they were to do were to subsidise AGHE waste disposal costs.
No, it works for some, and could work for a lot more, but it's not a solution for everyone.
HonestJohn
Well-Known Member
We can go in circles on this till the cows come home.
Stalkers will shoot for the pot, and unless there’s a financial carrot worth grabbing, will leave it at that.
They’ll shoot more if it’s a job/contract, yes, but the deer problems in England are on private land.
So until game dealer prices increase dramatically (they wont), or there’s a subsidy laid to GD’s by the government to artificially increase the price per Kg, or there’s a enforceable cull requirement put on private stalkers on private land. NOTHING will change.
Or deer management becomes nationalised as an outsourced government service, private firearms ownership banned, and all private landowners forced to cough up to pay for the nationalised deer management services…
They take chest shot deer Richard as I run in my "last one" Fallow Buck @36kg on Monday (shot over that weekend)
There is a price difference and I accept that, In fact from a yield point a clean chest shot gives more as there is a lot of meat in the neck.
Granted a chest shot is not always "on"
All the Grouse, Pheasants & Partridges taken in by the 1000's are not head shot
308rws
Well-Known Member
Whilst Game Dealers handle and process venison, deer are not “Game”.
Wild deer carcasses belong to the landowner not DEFRA. A landowner can either take the carcass, dispose of the carcass or leave it to decompose in situ.
If there’s no DEFRA appetite for Community Larders I doubt there’ll be any appetite for Community Incineration. I’m not aware of any DEFRA subsidised community cost sharing schemes - anyone?
If a sustainable supply chain doesn’t get sorted the stark reality in the face of increasing deer numbers is that a lot of deer will be shot to waste.
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