Stalking Show - Head Shooting discussion

[Norfolk Deer Search]

Got a call out several years ago, to a fallow with a jaw swinging, I told him to leave it alone. I’ll see you in the morning.

His boot marks in the mud told me he went after that deer, because he thought he knew best!

I tracked that follow for 2–3 km, to a boundary and I said to the guy can we cross or can you get permission to cross?

His reply was over the boundary, not my problem anymore!

Big bullet straight through the high shoulders equals dead deer not a problem!

 

[Overlay]

Got a call out several years ago, to a fallow with a jaw swinging, I told him to leave it alone. I’ll see you in the morning.

His boot marks in the mud told me he went after that deer, because he thought he knew best!

I tracked that follow for 2–3 km, to a boundary and I said to the guy can we cross or can you get permission to cross?

His reply was over the boundary, not my problem anymore!

Big bullet straight through the high shoulders equals dead deer not a problem!

Makes me always wonder if some of these guys have a tracking hound in tow or available, whatever has happens you still obliged to do your best for the animal that is lost on some unfortunately, I had a talk with a guy about a syndicate, when I asked about having a teckle with me, he said no dogs if you can’t find it, just leave it, hence heads or H&L shots gone wrong can lead to finding a maggot blown HD it’s a gamble for some

 

[spanj]

Wouldn’t know every time I’ve shot rabbits we left and where they laid

THAT should be banned

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

THAT should be banned

THAT was 20 years ago, when a job needed doing!

My days of shooting rabbits are long gone.

 

[HonestJohn]

Ah. Unfortunate.

I think there’s a very good case for shooting to waste in many places.

Fully agree. Also would take some heat off hill lambs targeted by sea eagles

 

[Sol]

I am not a fantastic shot however within reason I've taken two head shots.

Previous day I handed my rifle over too my friend for a bit better of a shot since It was a touch far, he missed! but the deer mule kicked, no blood and the deer ran off pretty well.
Returned the following day creeping up the kale and the young buck gets up 40 yards from me I was carrying the rifle, so without much word I shot it right in the head, .222 going through kale stems for a chest shot close distance didnt seem pretty ethical for the angle, Lower leg shattered right on the joint from the previous day.

The other was a doe I seen come out across the river what would require a 5 or so minute drive too get close too, so I had plenty of time too set up and get comfortable in the vehicle as we rolled up she sprinted and looked back so another one for the pot.

Now If you told me too headshot both these deer without my personal decision taken into consideration I'd be shaking like a leaf, Its weird.

I do find I shoot better on more obvious targets, a head, neck, or an actual genuine target my grouping Is always much better than behind the shoulder on a deer, especially on roe the coat colour Is one colour there isn't an obvious consistent area too shoot for.

 

[JH83]

With the rush of digital scopes on the market and thus the proliferation of shot videos posted on social media - it’s been worrying to see the amount of ‘new’ stalkers that have taken to head shooting as normal.

As with all shot placement there is a wrong way and a right way. I look forward to the debate.

I believe I have seen the same account, although I am sure there are many.

The person openly admits to less than 2 years stalking, always headshoots, quite often feeding deer in profile/side on (hugely risky). It’s a kudos thing IMO, treating deer as vermin. I’m certain there’s deer running off with jaws swinging that go unmentioned, or there certainly will be.

I’ll admit to a fair few headshots but usually close up and looking straight at/away from me. Most are pin or chest shots.

 

[Adam f]

I believe I have seen the same account, although I am sure there are many.

The person openly admits to less than 2 years stalking, always headshoots, quite often feeding deer in profile/side on (hugely risky). It’s a kudos thing IMO, treating deer as vermin. I’m certain there’s deer running off with jaws swinging that go unmentioned, or there certainly will be.

I’ll admit to a fair few headshots but usually close up and looking straight at/away from me. Most are pin or chest shots.

This is exactly my point - feeding and side on. Head up looking at or away always.

As with the guidance on taking a good chest shot I think I’d like to see an honest acceptance from the training orgs. That head shots are an increasing requirement and for some proper guidance to be given… rather than condemning it and resulting in people learning by social media.

It’s why I asked to watch the debate in the original post.

 

[Mike1979]

This will never get any degree of agreement. Ultimately people will do what they see fit so saying "you should never do it" isnt going to change anything.

I do find it interesting that there are people who on one hand will "brag" (and I use this term in the context of some of the comments already made) about shooting 3 shot groups at 0.5" at 100 yards on paper and then say they would never take a head shot. I understand that the head is the most mobile part of the body but it does often stop and knowing when and how a deer will move often provides ample time for the bullet to be sent and make contact.

Ultimately the person taking the shot makes the decision and should deal with the aftermath. Do I take headshots- Yes, do I prefer to shoot them in the chest - yes.

For those who would never take a head shot- good for you, but those who take head shots being accused of "willy waving" or doing it for bragging rights is way off.

 

[WW.]

Humane death should have greater weight than carcass value. It's unequivocal that shooting something in the head (brain) is about the most humane way to kill it. This requires accurate placement otherwise it stops being humane. I've seen a few people at the range (sometimes including me) who convince me that a head shot is not the best method because of the odds of them missing.

Guidelines and a recognised, demonstrable and repeatable level of accuracy before taking head shots would be a good thing to develop. In my view ideally this would be for 'best practice' rather than enforced via increased regulation.

 

[muddy42]

I've been shooting deer since I was a teenager and I just don't like head or neck shooting. The target is just too small and moves very quickly. Ive maybe done this 5 or so times in my life, when a deer has popped up within say 20m.

My venison doesn't go to the dealer, so I control pricing and my customers never mention the loss of 500g or so of shoulder mince. I wish dealers would price similarly and rather than knocking the whole price per kilo would only knock for loin or fillet damage.

 

[Dan Newcombe]

This will never get any degree of agreement. Ultimately people will do what they see fit so saying "you should never do it" isnt going to change anything.

I do find it interesting that there are people who on one hand will "brag" (and I use this term in the context of some of the comments already made) about shooting 3 shot groups at 0.5" at 100 yards on paper and then say they would never take a head shot. I understand that the head is the most mobile part of the body but it does often stop and knowing when and how a deer will move often provides ample time for the bullet to be sent and make contact.

Ultimately the person taking the shot makes the decision and should deal with the aftermath. Do I take headshots- Yes, do I prefer to shoot them in the chest - yes.

For those who would never take a head shot- good for you, but those who take head shots being accused of "willy waving" or doing it for bragging rights is way off.

I do agree but on the flip side, there are a lot of people who would profess to head shooting everything and never miss but who wouldn’t ever put their dot of doom target up for everyone to see so it goes both ways.

I’m pro choice and do both - haven’t been able to figure out this hilar thing yet though

 

[Mike1979]

I do agree but on the flip side, there are a lot of people who would profess to head shooting everything and never miss but who wouldn’t ever put their dot of doom target up for everyone to see so it goes both ways.

I’m pro choice and do both - haven’t been able to figure out this hilar thing yet though

Agreed. Only two types of people who shoot..those who miss and those who lie.

As I said I personally prefer to chest shoot deer as it is frankly the "easiest" shot and allows the biggest margin for error...i just despair when we end up with "you should never do this or never do that".

With regards to the hilar part I also understand what you mean. When I moved to copper I kept reverting to behind the shoulder (which to be fair works well enough) .. trying to bring the shot forward and up takes a bit of getting used to. Since the main game dealer doesnt deduct for shoulder damage I try and pin the front shoulders with copper as a preference as they dont tend to go more then a couple of yards.

 

[Rutland lad]

Lots of opinion well expressed here.

I’d been stalking for probably nearly 10 years before I felt I was confident enough to take on a high neck or head shot.
It’s not that I was worried about my shooting ability, I was still learning about deer and their behaviour.
I was bothered that I would shoot at the wrong moment and cause injuries as described in some of the other posts.
Now I’m confident about taking those type of shots, WHEN THAT’S ALL THATS AVAILABLE.
I’m still happier taking muntjac through the shoulders and bigger deer in the heart/lungs.

Some people see deer stalking as populated by blood crazed rifle toting idiots in camo kit.

What they don’t see is that I know we’ve got to trim the numbers, but there’s no way I want to cause any more suffering than absolutely necessary. I take pride in being able to drop them with a clean shot, or not to take the shot at all.

 

[RCS Deer Management]

This is one of many wounded chest shot deer that Iv been called in to dispatch. Shoulder shot gone wrong by a neighbouring stalker one week before. Pictures of jaw shot deer found still alive are hideous, but it pure naivety to suggest that chest shooting is foolproof. All shot placements can go wrong.

 

[Chris Richardson]

This is one of many wounded chest shot deer that Iv been called in to dispatch. Shoulder shot gone wrong by a neighbouring stalker one week before. Pictures of jaw shot deer found still alive are hideous, but it pure naivety to suggest that chest shooting is foolproof. All shot placements can go wrong.

Many years ago shot a roe buck went down like it had been hit by a train , light was fading got down highseat to see it up on its feet and walking to edge of wood , followed up the next morning to find it had made 250 yards in the wood , shot was a tad high and think the initial shock to the spine was what dropped it , as you say no shot is foolproof

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

In the best part of 20 years I can confess to loosing 3 deer, 2 were head and 1 to a neck, if you use a proper rifle instead of one of these poxy pea shooters, and use a heavy bullet 130gn or bigger through the shoulders you’re gonna find your animal pretty much where it dropped!

That also goes for copper!

All this light bullet drive them fast in my opinion equals runner!!

 

[VSS]

In the best part of 20 years I can confess to loosing 3 deer, 2 were head and 1 to a neck, if you use a proper rifle instead of one of these poxy pea shooters, and use a heavy bullet 130gn or bigger through the shoulders you’re gonna find your animal pretty much where it dropped!

That also goes for copper!

All this light bullet drive them fast in my opinion equals runner!!

Light bullet driven fast is perfect for the headshots!
.243 58grain V-max does the job just nicely. Drops them on the spot with a completely emptied head.
Crap for chest (or shoulder) shots though, as you rightly say.

 

[Sol]

I think having a bullet that explodes effectively soon as It hits bone Is a good idea, but Its awful in other circumstances for lung and shoulder shots.
The .222 Is very damaging on roe I find great rifle for them, but so much jelly-shock and bloodshot.

Another thing about headshots unless we magically buy a new scope I cant personally see them becoming a normal thing for myself for a few years at least, we're using a pretty old fashioned Ziess 6x what for roe makes them in-between a pence, and a two pence in the crosshairs over 150 yards.

Even pretty close the crosshair takes up quite a large amount of the neck, why I've always taken head since I can see and visualise a little more where my POA Is at, but I couldnt really fathom taking 70 yard and onward shots with it often the crosshairs are chunky that I cant quite tell the wobble on such a small area.

This roe Is maybe 50 yards? Push that another 30-40 yards and that crosshair starts too block some information I want too be able too see.

I did start shooting with very thin crosshair scopes that had a quite a decent bit of zoom.

 

[Mike1979]

I think having a bullet that explodes effectively soon as It hits bone Is a good idea, but Its awful in other circumstances for lung and shoulder shots.
The .222 Is very damaging on roe I find great rifle for them, but so much jelly-shock and bloodshot.

Another thing about headshots unless we magically buy a new scope I cant personally see them becoming a normal thing for myself for a few years at least, we're using a pretty old fashioned Ziess 6x what for roe makes them in-between a pence, and a two pence in the crosshairs over 150 yards.

Even pretty close the crosshair takes up quite a large amount of the neck, why I've always taken head since I can see and visualise a little more where my POA Is at, but I couldnt really fathom taking 70 yard and onward shots with it often the crosshairs are chunky that I cant quite tell the wobble on such a small area.

This roe Is maybe 50 yards? Push that another 30-40 yards and that crosshair starts too block some information I want too be able too see.

I did start shooting with very thin crosshair scopes that had a quite a decent bit of zoom.
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Good points raised. To be fair a 120 or 140 grain bullet in the head drops them as well as a 58 grain and allows you pick and chose shot placement without worrying if the bullet is suitable

I have a Z6I which is 5-30 mag so its pretty good for pinpointing shot placement ...though it doesnt tend to be anywhere near the 30x in normal use